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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
 Posted - 09/09/2008 : 22:22:54
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quote:
She was born Mar. 14 1859 and she is not a twin nor a Lægdslem. Ingeborg Maria Olsen is a very common name.
I believe this is your Ingeborg Maria in 1865
she was not with her parents, they were here
proof should be the baptismal record #28
the father was "møller" and "Leilending og møller".
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Einar |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 02:27:22
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Hi All,
Is it not possible that there might be two Ingeborg Maria Olsdatters about the age of 7-8 years in Modum in 1865?
The daughter Maria in the census record is about the right age to be the Ingeborg Maria Olsdatter from the baptismal record. What sort of circumstances would it take for a family to "farm out" one middle child and keep older and younger children at home with the still living parents?
Just wondering...
Jackie M. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 07:24:03
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Sorry for not bringing up records for the second Ingeborg Marie, the twin that I mentioned earlier, here she is 1865
and her baptismal record is #7
(This Ingeborg Marie was born 1858 and the one it was asked for skould have been born in 1859.) |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 10/09/2008 07:39:31 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/09/2008 : 09:09:47
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Hi,
Re the Andrew Swenson family from Douglas County, Minnesota in 1900: Do you happen to have the info from the census on the number of years married, children born /children living and the year of immigration for the parents and the month of birth and place of birth for the kids?
Never mind, I have and will post as soon as I finish typing.
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 11/09/2008 04:10:35 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 05:33:04
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Hi Vivi,
This is from my reading of the handwritten original entries of the census schedules:
1900 Census Brandon, Douglas County, Minnesota
Swenson, Andrew b. June 1853 age 46 married 24 years b. Norway fa.b. Norway, mo. b. Norway came to US 1879, 21 years Naturalized , occupation Blacksmith
Swenson, Josephine S. (or L?) b. Dec 1857 age 42 married 24 years 10 children born 9 living b. Norway, fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway came to US 1880, 20 years, no occupation given
Swenson, Anne L, daughter b. Jan 1879 age 21, single, b. Norway, fa. b. Norway, mo. b. Norway came to US 1880, 20 years, occupation is “Book agent”
Swenson, Clara E, daughter b. April 1881 age 19, single b. Minnesota, fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway no occupation given
Swenson, J. Arthur, son b. Sept 1884 age 15, single; b. Minnesota, fa. b. Norway, mo b. Norway, occupation “labor farm”
Swenson, C. Edwin, son b. June 1886 age 13, single, b. Minnesota, fa. b. Norway, mo b. Norway, at school
Swenson, Hattie, daughter b. Sept 1888 age 11, single, b Minnesota fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway, at school
Swenson, Gustav W. son b. Oct 1892 age 9, single, b. Minnesota fa.b. Norway, mo b. Norway, at school
Swenson, Norman R., son b. Nov 1894 age 5, single b. Minnesota, fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway
Swenson, Harold T. son, b June 1896 3 single, b. Minnesota fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway
Swenson, Lillian J. daughter b. July 1899 10/12 year old (i.e. 10 months), single, b. Minnesota fa b. Norway , mo b. Norway
1910 Census Village of Binford, Addie Township, Griggs County, North Dakota
Swenson, Andrew M. age 57 married 34 years, born Sweden, fa b. Sweden, mo b. Sweden, came to US 1880 Naturalized, occupation blacksmith
Swenson, Josephine wife age 52 married 34 years; 11 children born 9 living b. Norway, fa. b. Norway, mo b. Norway came to US 1881
Swenson, Gusty son age 18 b. Minnesota , fa b. Sweden , mo b. Norway occupation : blacksmith
Swenson, Harold son age 13 b. Minnesota (ditto parents of Gusty) no occupation
Swenson, Lillian daughter age 11 b. Minnesota (do)
Swenson, Olaf son age 8, b. Minnesota (do)
1920 Census, Fergus Falls, Otter Tail County, Minnesota
Swenson, Andres age 66, married, came to U.S. 1879 Naturalized 1897 b. Norway, fa. b. Norway, mo, b. Norway, no occupation
Swenson, Josephine age 62, married, came to US unknown b. Norway, fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway, no occupation
Swenson, Anna, daughter, age 40 single, came to US unknown b. Norway, fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway; occupation: bookeeper in a dry goods store
Swenson, Clara, daughter, age 38, single, b. Minnesota, (do parents of Anna); occupation: sewer in a factory
Swenson, Arthur, son, age 35, single, b. Minnesota (do parents) occupation: none
Swenson, Lillian, daughter age20, single b. Minnesota (do parents) omitted to take occupation
Swenson, Olof, son, age 18 single b. Minnesota (do parents) omitted to take occupation
Swenson, Hattie, daughter age 31, single b. Minnesota (do parents) omitted to take occupation
Swenson, Gust, son age 27 single b. Minnesota (do parents) omitted to take occupation
Further from the online WWI draft registration cards:
John Arthur Swenson b. 6 Sept 1884 at Brandon, Douglas County, Minnesota; occupation is mail carrier (rural), nearest relative is Andrew M. Swenson at Fergus Falls, Minn.; blue eyes, dark hair, short, medium build
Further from the online Minnesota birth index:
Swenson, Olaf E.
Date of Birth: 04 Dec 1901
Mother Maiden Name: Johannessen
certid# 1901-17603
County of Birth: Otter Tail
Further from the online Minnesota death index:
SWENSON, ANNA LOUISE
Date of Birth: 31 Jan 1879
Place of Birth: OUT OF STATE
Mother Maiden Name: JOHANSON
certid# 1966-MN-003828
Date of Death: 01 Feb 1966
County of Death: OTTER TAIL
SWENSON, CLARA
Date of Birth: 12 Apr 1881
Place of Birth: MINNESOTA
Mother Maiden Name: JOHANNSON
certid# 1971-MN-006660
Date of Death: 09 Mar 1971
County of Death: OTTER TAIL
SWENSON, GUSTAV W.
Date of Birth: 08 Oct 1892
Place of Birth: MINNESOTA
Mother Maiden Name: JOHANSEN
certid# 1975-MN-023211
Date of Death: 07 Sep 1975
County of Death: OTTER TAIL
SWENSON, HATTIE M.
Date of Birth: 20 Sep 1888
Place of Birth: MINNESOTA
Mother Maiden Name: JOHANSON
certid# 1982-MN-028845
Date of Death: 17 Nov 1982
County of Death: OTTER TAIL
SWENSON, LILLIAN
Date of Birth: 09 Jul 1899
Place of Birth: MINNESOTA
Mother Maiden Name: (UNKNOWN)
certid# 1992-MN-001711
Date of Death: 05 Jan 1992
County of Death: OTTER TAIL
SWENSON, CARL E.
Date of Birth: 29 Jun 1886
Place of Birth: MINNESOTA
Mother Maiden Name: JOHANSON
certid# 1970-MN-014730
Date of Death: 14 Jun 1970
County of Death: HENNEPIN
SWENSON, OLAF E.
Date of Birth: 04 Dec 1901
Place of Birth: MINNESOTA
Mother Maiden Name: JOHANNESON
certid# 1967-MN-013204
Date of Death: 21 May 1967
County of Death: HENNEPIN
There seems to be a trend in these people that their mother's maiden name is Johanson.
If you are interested in getting obituaries, they can be ordered at the Otter Tail County Historical Society.
Good Luck
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vivi
Senior member
Norway
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 09:51:39
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Hi
WOW!
Thank you very much!
This was very helpful because it tells me for sure: this is not the family I'm looking for.
My Josephine was born aug 1861. All three of these agree: this Josephine was born three years earlier. This also agree with the birthyear given when she emigrated.
My Josephine had no middle name and her maiden name was Olsen.
Very god to get this family out of my mind, but does anybody know where my Josephine was?
She was born aug 1861 in Modum, Norway, married a Anders (or Assens) Svendsen. They had a daughter, Hattie, born sept 20 1889 (or 1888) in Duluth and they had a son, Augustin born probably in the 1890's.
I believe they lived in West Superior around 1902. They might also have lived there when Hattie was born since the two cities are close to eachother.
Vivi
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Vivi |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 11:33:31
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Hi Vivi,
Okay then here is a candidate family:
1910 census Minnesota, St. Louis county,Duluth
Swenson, Asmus (? Armas?) age 48 married 1 time 15 year b. Norway, fa. b. Norway, mo b. Norway came to US in 1890 naturalized; occupation is carpenter
Swenson, Josephine age 48, married 1 time 15 years; 5 children born 4 living b. Norway, fa b. Norway, mo b. Norway came to US (looks like)1890. no occupation
Swenson, Swen A. (or maybe Sam A.) age 15 14 b. Iowa
Swenson, Adolph A. age 9 b.Wisconsin
Swenson, William F. age 6 b. Wisconsin
Swenson, Herman W. age 2 6/12 b. Minnesota
No Hattie, no Gust but near the right spot and approx age good match.
Wisconsin Birth Index:
Birth Record Details
Last Name: Swenson
First Name: William
Day: 04
Month: September
Year: 1905
County: Jackson
Reel: 0085
Record: 000466
Swenson, Adolph M Birth Sep 17 1906 Pierce
Not enough information for certainty about these two.
Did you follow up on my earlier suggestions for the records at the rootsweb site? And what have you done about the Valentine Thorson family?
Good Luck
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 13/09/2008 05:49:03 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 11:57:36
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It would be nice if you can make up your mind, firstly you asked for info from the Modum bygdebok quote:
Does the book tell anything about two sisters who left for US?
- Ingeborg Maria Olsen b. 1859, left Norway 1885 and married Valentin Thoresen.
- Josephine Olsen b. 1861 left Norway (? year) and married Anders Svendsen?
then you give the info quote:
Josephine's marriage I know nothing about, apart from her husbands name: Anders, Andrew or Assens Svendsen, Swenson or something like this. They had a daughter, Hattie born sept 20 1889 possibly in Duluth (or West Superior).
Jan Peter gave you info from the Census-1900 for Douglas, Minnesota with both Andrew, Josefine and Hattie.
You then answer quote:
This Josephine is born 1858 (the same year in later censuses and in ship lists) and "my" Josephine 1861.
I think this Josephine came from Fredrikstad about 1879 as Anna is born in Norway. The husband left the year before.
I have no information about were "my" Josephine was after 1876.
and later say you believe Josephine L. Svends from Fredrikstad leaving Oslo 1880 is your Josephine which again most likely is the Josefine Laurine Olsdatter on Strømbukten farm, Hvaler I pointed out for you.
Jackie then gave you info on the family where Josephine L (not S) Swenson in 3 censuses is the housewife.
After all this work you tell us quote:
This was very helpful because it tells me for sure: this is not the family I'm looking for.
My Josephine was born aug 1861. All three of these agree: this Josephine was born three years earlier. This also agree with the birthyear given when she emigrated.
My Josephine had no middle name and her maiden name was Olsen.
Very god to get this family out of my mind, but does anybody know where my Josephine was?
She was born aug 1861 in Modum, Norway, married a Anders (or Assens) Svendsen. They had a daughter, Hattie, born sept 20 1889 (or 1888) in Duluth and they had a son, Augustin born probably in the 1890's.
I believe they lived in West Superior around 1902. They might also have lived there when Hattie was born since the two cities are close to eachother.
How do you know Josephine was born in Modum?
Have you seen her baptismal record?
Where is the Anne Louise she brought with her from Norway?
Looking forward to evidence on these questions. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 11/09/2008 12:01:42 |
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vivi
Senior member
Norway
371 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 12:58:44
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Hi
I know about the two sister's family in Norway. They came from Modum. (I misunderstood the bygdebok; thought it might be from the Bygdelag in US and have information about their life in US. Sorry) It is what happened to them in US I'm trying to find out. The little I knew about their husbands is from the "dødsfallsprotokoll" (=? death record) when their parents died.
I have later found Ingeborg Maria in US - she lived in Cumberland and used the name Mary.
I also knew there was a Andrew/Josephine/Hattie-family and the emigration of the Josephine in that family.
There are mistakes in censuses, so I was not sure if this was my Josephine at all. I had too little information to know. This is why I asked for information about her in Norway. If somebody knew who she was, I could be sure if she was "mine" or not. Thanks to Jackies great work and you finding this Josephine in Hvaler, I am sure. She is not my Josephine.
Jackie just found a very interesting family from the 1910 census.
Josephine's sister also lived in Iowa shortly before 1900.
Hattie would have been 21/22 in 1910 and might have started a family of her own.
Maybe Augustin had left the family too.
Vivi
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Vivi |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 17:22:08
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Hi Vivi,
There are lots of possibilities to explore. Sorry to be nosy!
When did the sister Ingeborg Maria die? Do you know about her family?
This dødsfallprotokol of the women's parents --what is the date on that? Was it an estate settlement wherein they needed to know where to send a settlement? Depending on the date, such a situation may be explored in the consulate general's records at:
http://www.library.und.edu/Collections/og594.html
Re the information contained in bygdebok--it does not seem so strange to me to find information about migrants from a place after they came to US. Most of the bygdebok covering Hallingdal parishes have such information as was available when the books were printed.
Some of the records you will need to research (death certificates and obituaries) may not have a volunteer able to do that for you for free--you may have to spend some $$$. You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet!
Good luck,
Jackie M.
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2008 : 17:59:44
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quote:
I know about the two sister's family in Norway. They came from Modum.
why don't you share the secrets with us - it might be helpful to find info on their departure from Norway and then to make certain who and where they are in the US. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 11/09/2008 18:01:30 |
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vivi
Senior member
Norway
371 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2008 : 10:29:19
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Hi
There is no secret.
Ingeborg Maria Olsdatter was born in Modum March 3 1859 and baptised April 10 1859. She is no 8.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=142&uid=3260&urnread_imagesize=gigant&hode=nei&ls=1
Josephine Osldatter was born in Modum Aug 26 1861 and baptised Sept 29. She is no 187.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=40&uid=3388&urnread_imagesize=gigant&hode=nei&ls=1
They both live with their parents in the 1865 census. Ingeborg Maria = Maria.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=14&filnamn=f60623&gardpostnr=326&personpostnr=1586&merk=1586#ovre
About Ingeborg Maria I know she left Norway in 1885. The family was living in Sigdal when she left.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=23&filnamn=EMIOSLO&gardpostnr=66387&merk=66387#ovre
She married Valentin Thorson (from Karmøy) Nov 30 1887 in Fillmore, Minnesota.
A son, Albert was born 1888 in Minnesota.
A daughter, Martha was born 1891 in Minnesota.
A son, Leo was born 1897 in Iowa
A daughter, Mabel was born 1900 in Iowa
She has born 3 other children who have died.
In the 1900 census they live in Cumberland. (Her name in this census Engebord Thorson). Still in Cumberland in the 1910 census - her name now Mary.
She dies 1917 and is burried on the cemetary East Cumberland.
When the father of the two sisters dies in 1908 in Norway it is written about them:
Marie Olsen married to Valentin Thorsen
Josefine married to As. Svendsen
When their mother dies 1914 in Norway it is written:
Marie Thoresen the husbands name can not be given. Chumberland Wisk Usa.
Josefine Svendsen the same (husbands name can not be given) Duluth Minnesota
On that note someone long ago wrote: married to Assens Svendsen (may be he used Anders as given name)
And: Hattie born Sept 20 1889 Duluth. Parents Anders Svendsen and Josephine Svendsen.
(The last 9 might be a 8, but looks most like 9)
And a few days ago I took some about 100 years old pictures out of their album and looked on their back and there I found the name Augustin. The picture was taken by Svendsen. The boy looked about 14-15-16 years old and would have been born in the 1890's.
I have not found Josephine leaving Norway. The last I know of her is her confirmation 1876 in Eiker.
I'm afraid the promising family Jackie found is wrong too because the parents married 1895 and Hattie was born 1889.
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Vivi |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2008 : 04:29:18
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Hi Vivi,
I found these two entries at the non-members Ancestry search page at rootsweb.com -- I will check tomorrow unless someone else wants to take on the looking tonight:
1900 US Federal
Name: Josephine Swensen
Spouse: Oserus
Birth: Aug 1862 - Norway
Birth: Norway
1930 US Federal
Name: Josephine Swenson
Spouse: Arsene
Birth: abt 1862
Residence: 1930 - city, Carlton, Minnesota
I didn't realize that I had already copied the 1930 family:
Silver Township, Carlton County, Minnesota
Swenson, Arseus (? given name very difficult-Asserus?) age 63, age at first marriage 29, b. Norway, father b. Norway, mother b. Norway came to US in 1886, farmer on a dairy farm
Swenson, Josephine,wife, age 69 (or 68?), age at first marriage 33, b. Norway, fa. b. Norway, mo. b. Norway came to US in 1889 no occupation
Swenson, August age (very muddled 33? 35?) single b. Iowa fa. & mo. b. Norway; occupation farm labor on dairy farm
Swenson, Adolph age 29 single b Wisconsin, fa & mo b. Norway; occupation farm labor on dairy farm
Swenson, Herman age 22 single b. Minnesota fa & mo b. Norway; occupation farm labor on dairy farm
Carlton County borders St. Louis County, Minnesota, the county Duluth is in.
And this family is very like the 1910 family mentioned earlier.
No Hattie, unless note wrong and she was born in 1898 or before marriage and the approx marriage causes question but it appears Swen A. / Sam A. maybe Swen Augustin? There is a Swen Augustine Swenson in the Wisconsin death records index at Ancestry.com. And there is a Josephine Swenson d. 1936 in Carlton County, Minnesota in the Minnesota online death index so, more looking tomorrow.
Hilsen,
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 13/09/2008 06:07:10 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2008 : 05:22:59
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Thank you for the details that was already known,
quote:
About Ingeborg Maria I know she left Norway in 1885. The family was living in Sigdal when she left.
I am afraid this is not "your" Ingeborg Marie, if you check "udflyttede" she is #46
there it says that she was confirmed 1873 where you find her as #7
her parents were Ole Gulsen and Sigrid Olsdatter, the parents of "your" ingeborg Marie were Ole Pedersen, Stenbro and Marthe Andersdatter at Holeeie, right? |
Einar |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2008 : 17:02:35
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Hi Vivi,
When did the other siblings left in Norway die? Is Josephine mentioned as surviving in their obituaries?
That name of the old man Swenson is quite perplexing. At the digitalarkivet if you do a name searh in the 1865 census and input to find only names beginning with Ars or Ass, the only "logical" name which comes up is "Asseus" Could that be the name written on the slip?
On the old photo, the name of the photographer is Svendson, but is there a town name given on the legend? Many, many long years ago at a Norwegian web site it was possible to search for the names of Norwegian photographers. Has anyone else ever found this site or know of it?
FYI the 1900 census listing for the Valentine Thorson family, the date of US arrival for Engiber M. Thorson is 1883, her husband is 1885.
Hilsen,
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 13/09/2008 17:08:58 |
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Modum Bydgebok
