| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Nielset
Starting member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
 Posted - 21/04/2012 : 21:43:18
|
John Martin Petersen/Peterson was born circa 1829. He left Norway and was married in Swansea (UK) in 1850. He was a mariner. On the marriage certificate his father is listed as GOLDMAN PETERSEN, a rope maker.
That is all the information I have.
Could he have come from Bergen, as I understand Bergen was a centre for rope making?
Any help/advice would be welcome, though I am sorry there is so little information to go on. |
J M Neilson |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2012 : 01:17:26
|
Here from the 1801 Norwegian census 2 Guldman Pederson:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f1801
Sorry about the non-working link which I've lined out. Here is the copy of the two index Guldmund Pederson entries in the 1801 census:
697493Søndre Trondhiem Strinden Lade Verre Øvre Guldmund Peders Tienestefolk 20 Ugivt M
738395 Søndre Trondhiem Hevne Hevne Hægstad Guldmund Pedersen 34 Ugift M
The Norwegian word for ropemaker is reipslager
|
Edited by - jkmarler on 22/04/2012 14:59:47 |
 |
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2012 : 10:51:21
|
Hi.
Johan Martin Petersen, father Goldman Petersen, would have been bap. Johan Martin Goldman in Norway (Goldmans son), BUT...
Goldman is not a Norwegian name, perhaps an English version of ex. Gudmund, Gulmund, Geirmund, Gulbrand, Gudbrand.
The ending ....man, less likely; Drengman, Hermand, Tidemand, Timand.
Its a great advantage with a first name and middelname; Johan Martin.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 22/04/2012 21:30:07 |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 22/04/2012 : 13:57:58
|
Elene Mortina Guldmandsdatter was born out of wedlock, see #20.
|
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 22/04/2012 13:58:42 |
|
|
|
Nielset
Starting member
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2012 : 20:23:02
|
| Thank you for your help |
J M Neilson |
|
|
|
marilynjones
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 15:14:22
|
I'm re-visiting this topic - the original query was very kindly raised on my behalf by Neilset back in 2012 and I was very grateful for the replies. Can anyone help me with a few more questions please?
Unfortunately, I cannot understand the birth entry well enough at eibache's post below, #20, regarding Elene Mortina's birth out of wedlock, but I've found the births of other daughters to a Guldmand/Guldmund Pedersen, possible siblings to Elene Mortina Guldmansdatter by a different mother or maybe to a completely different Guldmand altogether. These are Gurina Guldmundsdatter, 19/7/1829, Elen Guldmundsdatter, 22/5/1820, Beret Guldmundsdatter, 22/1/1826, all of Sor Trondelag and born to Marta Tollevsdatter. Marta Tollevsdatter and Guldmund Pedersen, born 1784, married 19/6/1822 at Bratsberg, Sor Trondelag. I haven't as yet found a son born to this couple, but have found a John Gudmundsen born to Gudmund Pedersen and Marianne Gudmundsdr, in Aamodt, Hedmark, on 16/3/1828. I have also found a Gudmund Pedersen aged 11 on the 1801 Cenus, at Aamodt, with his family. However, there are many other individuals with the same names but variant spellings and I am a bit confused!
All I know of my family's Norwegian ancestry is that John Martin Petterson's father is quoted on the 1850 marriage certificate as "Goldman" Petterson" and he was a rope maker. However, I'm thinking that John took his father's surname when he came to the U.K., in keeping with the naming conventions of this country, hence my looking now for John Guldmundsen, with variant spellings of both given name and surname. Do you think I may be on the right track here? I note that the Norwegian word for ropemaker is reipslager. Is it possible for me to conduct a search for Pedersen coupled with the occupation "reipslager", which may allow me to narrow the Pedersens down a little please? Does "reipslager" appear in Elene Mortina Guldmandsdatter's birth entry please? Sorry I can't read it. Would you think it reasonable that a ropemaker would have been able to make a living in Bratsberg or Aamodt? Or would another part of the country be more likely?
Any help or suggestions will be very welcome indeed!!
Thanks
|
MarJones |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 21:31:01
|
Johan Martin is mentioned here
Fathers lastname spelled Pettersen, we can most likely exclude Pedersen which was more common
Gulmund was a rare name, more common was Gudmund.
We are looking for Johan Martin Gulmundsen/Gudmundsen, father, Gulmund/Gudmund Pettersen.
Kåre
|
Edited by - Kåarto on 04/02/2014 21:31:47 |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 21:39:07
|
The posting for Elene Mortina, born Dec 23 1818, needs a small correction. Father was Guldmund Pedersen and mother was Ane Martha Olsdatter, her last name would therefore have been Guldmundsdatter.
|
Einar |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 21:41:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Johan Martin is mentioned here
Kåre
Per the family tree posted by Kåre, witness at the wedding of John Martin Pettersen (in Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales) was Henry Pettersen. A Henry Petterson got married in Swansea, Glamorgan, Wales, in 1848. Would be of interest to see how his father's name is listed. |
Edited by - JaneC on 04/02/2014 22:02:25 |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 22:05:23
|
The marriage record for Guldmund Pedersen, Granaastrøen and Marta Tøllevsdatter, Kolbodahlen is #1. He could very well be the same as Elene Mortinas father.
Records for their children
Peder born Febr 14 1823, #18,
Beret born Dec 1 1825, #35, and
Gurina born May 6 1829, #45.
They also had the daughter Elen born out of wedlock May 10 1820, #7. This child was her 2nd and his 3rd born out of wedlock.
|
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 04/02/2014 22:46:18 |
|
|
|
JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 22:20:45
|
Here on this family tree he is Gudmund Pedersen Haugen b 1781
married to Martha Tølløvsdtr. Kolbudalen b 1791, Almanaunet, Bratsberg
with children Beret and Gurina, as you say, and also
Peder Gudmundsen Granaastrøen born 14 Feb 1823 at Strinda
http://folk.ntnu.no/dagfinnr/slekt/d0008/g0000058.html
|
Edited by - JaneC on 04/02/2014 22:30:14 |
|
|
|
eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 22:39:46
|
Gudmund Pedersens first child born out of wedlock 1806 was Johanna, mother widow Beret Olsdatter, Hammer. 1806 right page.
|
Einar |
|
|
|
marilynjones
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2014 : 23:50:34
|
Hi JaneC
Thanks for responding so quickly! Unfortunately, there's very limited information about JMP to go on at this end. Family tradition tells us that he was Norwegian, but it's only his marriage to Elizabeth Lewis in Swansea, Wales, on 26 November 1850 that we can be sure of. Please see:-
"Wales, Glamorganshire, Parish Registers, 1538-1912," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KCYY-1R1
Both parties are described on the marriage certificate simply as "of full age" (over 21, while subsequent records show Elizabeth to have been 22 approximately). John is described as a "bachelor" and a "mariner", whose father's name is "Goldman Petterson", "ropemaker". At the time of the marriage, JMP was living in Swansea town centre, probably sailor's lodgings. His place of birth was not recorded at all. A witness to the marriage was a Henry Petterson - I don't know whether they were related, but records show that there was a Henry Petterson in Swansea around that time whose father's name was William. In the 1851 Census on 31 March 1851, Elizabeth is at home with her parents, described as married, but John is not present, presumably because he is away at sea. Swansea at that time was a major industrial port, with large numbers of sailors and other workers of all nationalities. By the time of the 1861 Census, taken on 7 April, Elizabeth is described as a widow, with 4 dependent children. They were John Lewis Peterson, born 17 September 1851, David Martin Peterson, born 20 February 1854, Paul Martin Peterson, born 14 February 1856, from whom I am descended, and Hannah, born 11 April 1859. JMP must have died between 1858 and 7 April 1861. As JMP appears on no Census, I have no info regarding his exact age or place of birth, but have no reason to believe that he is not Norwegian! The Peterson family history here in Swansea, Wales, thereafter has been comprehensively researched and some of my relatives have posted family trees to websites such as Ancestry etc., but I believe that JMP remains unfound. I have tried every avenue to establish a date and place of death for him, both in the UK and abroad, using consular records and all manner of resources. I imagine he died at sea. His widow, Elizabeth, remarried here in Swansea on 28 June 1864 to a John Thomas, 3 years her junior, and they brought up JMP's children here. There is no further info about her late husband unfortunately, so I decided to try my luck with Norwegian records in the hope that I may find evidence of a JMP with a father named Goldman or similar, maybe in a census or maybe among emigration or crew list records. Some years ago I visited the Archives at Oslo and discovered that Goldman is indeed an unlikely Norwegian name, but could easily be mistaken for more conventional Norwegian names such as Guldmund, Gulbrand etc., with variant spellings. I can envisage the Registrar at the marriage in Swansea in 1850 doing his best to understand a young Norwegian man with a strong accent!
The info I've found from the Norwegian records has come from examining the Digital Archives website provided by the National Archives of Norway and the FamilySearch website. These are the citations for the births, marriages and census entries I have found:-
Marriage of Guldmund Pedersen to Marta Tollevsdatter, 1822 is. "Norway, Marriages, 1660-1926," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N7TX-2MD
Birth of Elen Guldmundsdatter to Guldmund & Marta, 1820, is "Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NWM5-89G
Birth of Beret Gulmundsdatter to Gulmund & Marta, birth 1825, christening 1826, is "Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," "Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NWMK-YFP
Birth of Gurina Guldmundsdatter to Guldmund & Marta, 1829, is "Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NWMG-4XS
Birth of Elen Mortina Guldmandsdatter to a Guldmand Pedersen & Ane Martha Olsdr, birth 1818 out of wedlock, christening 1819, as per #20 in the earlier posts, is "Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N4R5-QX1
Birth of John Gudmundsen to Gudmund Pedersen & Mariane Gudmundsdr, 1828, is "Norway, Baptisms, 1634-1927," https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NWGV-P24
1801 Census info for Gudmund Pedersen, mentioned above, as taken from the Digital Archives is:-
R.no. Residence name Farm no. Property no. Number of households Number of people present Number of residents
0032 Nyegaarden
Census district
D.no. Name of census district Local parish Parish Municipality / City Notes
001 Aamodt Aamodt
Source Information
Folketelling 1801 for 0429P Åmot prestegjeld
ID: 58245
Read more
Information on the searchable version
Period: 1801-1801
Fully transcribed/Index: ftr
Level of proof reading: 110
Associated to: DA
Last published: 2013-01-21
Read more
Household members
P.no. H.no. Name Age/born Place of birth Family position Marital status Occupation Residential status
001 01 Peder Christensen 53 Huusbonde Begge i 1ste ægteskab Bonde og gaardbeboer
002 01 Anne Gudmundsdatter 45 Hans kone Begge i 1ste ægteskab
003 01 Marthe Pedersdatter 13 Deres børn Ugift
004 01 Gudmund Pedersen 11 Deres børn
005 01 Anne Pedersdatter 9 Deres børn
006 01 Peder Pedersen 6 Deres børn
007 01 Christen Pedersen 3 Deres børn
008 01 Dorthe Pedersdatter 1 Deres børn
I'm sorry this post is so lengthy, but I am trying to convey what little I actually know of JMP's background - in Norway, it's all educated guesswork at the moment! It is frustrating as I conduct a lot of family history research within the UK, but this is really perplexing.
I will be very grateful for any help/ suggestions.
Thanks
marilynjones
|
MarJones |
|
|
|
marilynjones
Starting member
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2014 : 00:12:51
|
Wow, thanks so much for all these responses. While composing my reply to the first message kindly posted by JaneC, I didn't notice that several more had come in. Thank you all so much. It shows the enormous amount of help that is willingly given and gratefully received. I shall evaluate all these.
Yes, the family tree posted that Kare ( sorry I can't get my IPad to spell your name correctly) mentions is indeed my family. It's been listed by one of my cousins. As you can see there, the trail goes cold at Goldman. We're all in the dark, but I believe part of the problem has been in our looking for John Martin Petterson and variant spellings, which he probably did live as and maybe die as in the UK, whereas he would have been Gulmundsen/Gudmundsen in Norway, as you've kindly pointed out.
Thank you so much, this is all very helpful (and exciting!).
|
MarJones |
|
|
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2014 : 05:18:50
|
From Ancestry.com
Name: Gudmund Pedersen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 24 jun 1781
Baptism Place: Soknedal, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Father: Peder Hoxeggen
FHL Film Number: 126769
Reference ID: 2:LMKMC6
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Gudmund Pedersen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 24 jun 1781
Baptism Place: Soknedal, Sor Trondelag, Norway
Father:
FHL Film Number: 126769
Reference ID: 2:LMKMC6 |
Edited by - AntonH on 05/02/2014 05:29:15 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Peterson/Petersen - John Martin
