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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 01/06/2012 : 03:16:14
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Whew! That's a lot of work you've done on the confirmands!
Thank you so very very much!!!
And now perhaps could you please search Denmark, Sweden, Finland, and Estonia? hehe
I think this latest list of boys makes me like Carl Johan Olsen son of Ole Olsen Hammer even better. What do you think?
jkmarler, you have made a HUGE difference in this project! 
P.S. The information about the Carl Knudsen family is very welcome. Takk.
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Edited by - JaneC on 01/06/2012 03:22:58 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 04:49:33
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
I think this latest list of boys makes me like Carl Johan Olsen son of Ole Olsen Hammer even better. What do you think?
I'd think better if I knew where the 2 full dates of Charles' birth came from and could see & judge the photo & inscription. There is almost always a kernel of truth in family tradition but sometimes its big and sometimes its way small. These posts have all been an effort to "throw it on the wall and see what sticks." |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 11:03:57
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Yes - good point.
It's my impression that several people may have looked for Carl Johan Olsen (son of Ole Olsen Hammer) in his later life in Norway and not found him, as other members of the family have been found and posted here. If he doesn't turn up, he may have left the country. That's not proof he did leave!! or that he went to America! But his absence in Norway census 1865 and onward is another bit of evidence that so far is "sticking."
The family story that he was born in Oslo has been thoroughly tested - thanks to you searching the churchbooks.
We had some other candidates that stuck a little too - it's the exact birth date that is shining a light on this Carl. So we do need to know how real it is. |
Edited by - JaneC on 01/06/2012 11:28:19 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 19:42:25
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I got a reply from the person who had the query at Arkivverket today.
He said that it was correct that Carl Johan was born on June 19th, 1834 in Kristiansund. But he didn't know whether Carl Johan got married or where/if he left the area.
Carl Johan was the brother to his wife's 2x great-great-grandmother.
He didn't have more about Carl, and said that since the churchbooks from the area from the time are badly damaged by fire, it's a challenge.
If he emigrated around 1862, he could have left from Trondheim. He had some additional info about the rest of the family.
I still think he is a good candidate.
If only we could have seen the scanned image of the handwritten note... 
Jan Peter |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2012 : 21:11:59
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Yes.
So now we know it is unlikely anyone can ever prove Carl Johan Olsen has left the country. Thank you so much for that correspondence Jan Peter. |
Edited by - JaneC on 01/06/2012 21:14:05 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2012 : 23:47:38
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| Today I messed about a bit with Ancestry and found something a bit interesting. Ancestry has a database of desertions by sailors on German ships and there was an entry for a "Carl Wilson" Matros, who was from Christiansund [Norway] b. 1835, sailing from Bremen on a ship whose name started with Har_____ for Captain Schonmeyer. Carl deserted on 12 October 1866 in Baltimore. |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 01:12:07
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| You had my heart pumping there! However my Charles already had a child here by then. Too bad. It goes to show you how easy it is to accept someone as our own. thanks for your effort! |
JJW |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 01:22:31
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I want to thank you all for working so incredibly hard to help a straanger! I guess people who do genealogy are never really strangers but kindred spirits. eh? It is making me nuts that I still can not find the photo graph but my mind is clearer in that I really believe the date of his birth is June 19,1834 as I posted it. I posted it after I received the photo as I was very excited about the new lead. Believe me, when I find it, I will scan and post.
I also believe this was on the photo :Chri (em) Sted (s) (ian)
and also there was a question mark somewhere in there before ian or sted.
This particular post gave me a good feeling:Name: Carl Johan Olsen
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 23 Sep 1834
Baptism/Christening Place: KRISTIANSUND, MORE OG ROMSDAL, NORWAY
Birth Date: 19 Jun 1834
Father's Name: Ole Hammer
Mother's Name: Karen Kirstine Abrahamsdr
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C42203-1
System Origin: Norway-ODM
Source Film Number: 124839
The only thing that bothered me with it was the fact that none of the children had the same name. Now that I look, Charles' first child was Caroline, Could the translation between Nordic and English be Karen? A wild shot!
Thanks to everyone who thought it good to donate some of their personal time to me!! I really appreciate you all. |
JJW |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 01:41:43
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quote:
Originally posted by JackWilson
You had my heart pumping there! However my Charles already had a child here by then. Too bad. It goes to show you how easy it is to accept someone as our own. thanks for your effort!
How many people with the last name Wilson are in Kristiansund. Norway in the 1865 census? NONE
Just because a man has a family started is not any reason to think him incapable of jumping ship.
Charles Wilson's occupation, in a couple of the city directory listings was seaman--he could be still have been an occasional seafarer. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 01:47:19
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The ship was probably the Herzogin von Brabrant. Here is the record.
Seemansamt Bremen, Deserteurlisten, 1855-1874
Name: Carl Wilson
Residence City: Christiansand
Birth Year: 1835
Date Deserted: 12 Okt 1866 (12 Oct 1866)
Port of Departure: Bremen
Where Deserted: Baltimore
Archive Name: Bremen Staatsarchiv
Archive Collection: 4,24-C.9 Seemansamt Bremen
Volume: Band 2 Deserteurlisten 1863-1870
Microfilm: FS_5343 |
Edited by - AntonH on 03/06/2012 01:51:41 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 01:54:49
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This looks like the crew list for the voyage and is where I got the name of the ship.
Bremer Musterungslisten der Schiffe, 1815-1917
Name: Carl Wilson
Age: 33
Birth Year: 1833
Birthplace: Christiansund
Residence : Christiansund
Date Mustered: 30 Jul 1866
Ship: Herzogin Von Brabant
Port of Departure: Bremen
Destination: Baltimore, Maryland
Archive Name: Bremen Staatsarchiv
Archive Collection: 4,24-E.7 Musterungslisten der Schiffe, geführt vom Bremer Wasserschout, 1837 Juli- 1873 Mai
Microfilm: FS_5367 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 02:00:38
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
The ship was probably the Herzogin von Brabrant. Here is the record.
Seemansamt Bremen, Deserteurlisten, 1855-1874
Name: Carl Wilson
Residence City: ChristiansandBirth Year: 1835
Date Deserted: 12 Okt 1866 (12 Oct 1866)
Port of Departure: Bremen
Where Deserted: Baltimore
Archive Name: Bremen Staatsarchiv
Archive Collection: 4,24-C.9 Seemansamt Bremen
Volume: Band 2 Deserteurlisten 1863-1870
Microfilm: FS_5343
The index says Christiansand but in the actual handwritten record it says Christiansund. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 02:15:12
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True, and the crew registry has it as Christiansund. as well as this thrid record.
Bremer Seeleuteregister, 1824-1917
Name: Carl Wilson
Birth Year: 1835
Birthplace: Christiansund
Residence : Christiansund
Archive Name: Bremen Staatsarchiv
Archive Collection: Seeleuteregister des Bremer Wasserschouts, 1837-1873
Microfilm: FS 5375 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 02:17:47
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Also there were 4 naturalization records for Charles Wilson renouncing the King of Norway and Sweden in New York in another Ancestry database.
Charles Wilson naturalized on 14 Oct 1856 in Superior County in New York County. (80, 323) witnessed by William Roethenback at 24 Albany St, NYC
Charles Wilson naturalized on 20 July 1888 in Kings County (168, 4) witnessed by Joseph D. Fortune
Charles Wilson naturalized 20 Nov 1867 in Pleas County, New York county (355, 238) Charles' address 22 Rector St, NYC and witness: Abraham D. Thompson 100 West St, NYC
Charles Wilson naturalized 26 Nov 1890 Superior County, New York County (464,98) address 178 South St, occupation is seaman. Witnessed by Peter Beyer 178 South St.
And there are some Herting folks in the family plot. Did Charles Jr marry a Mathilda Herting? If so there is a picture of she and he in the Picture section of Ancestry. The date is given as 1900. His name is given as Charles John Wilson, Jr. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2012 : 02:46:26
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I am breathless with all this new information!
EUREKA!!!!!!!!
You have found a CARL WILSON FROM CHRISTIANSUND ! ! ! ! ! !
We have:
Charles Wilson of Brooklyn, likely born 19 June 1834.
Carl Johan Olsen of Christiansund, born 19 June 1834.
Karl Johan, king of Norway, aka Charles John
Charles Wilson of Brooklyn has a son Charles John
Charles Wilson of Brooklyn is a seafaring man first and then, as he becomes a family man and works from home, he works on boats in the harbor
Carl Johan Olsen of Christiansund has a father and family who are seafaring people and people who work on boats
Carl Johan Olsen of Christiansund has not been found in later census in Norway, even though his mother and siblings are found.
A Carl Wilson from Christiansund jumps ship; no person named Carl Wilson exists in Christiansund,
"Our" Charles Wilson of Brooklyn jumps ship
Carl Wilson of Christiansund is born about 1833-1835
As I see it, and as mentioned already in the forum, jumping ship doesn't preclude being a father. Being a father could be the reason he jumped ship. We don't know the story in full.
When we started this project, we all knew it's impossible to establish with absolute certainty the connection between Brooklyn and Norway. The best outcome I hoped for was to find bits and pieces of evidence. We would make a pile of these bits of evidence. At some point, we could say, that's a pretty big pile of coincidences.
Taken together, the facts accumulated make it likely we have found the right person in Norway.
A DNA test could be done to establish further proof, working with a descendant of Ole Olsen Hammer in Norway. Further records on Charles in USA can be checked (such as the original of the naturalization record, probably the one in Kings County.)
You guys are absolutely AMAZING! I really don't know how you found this stuff.
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Edited by - JaneC on 03/06/2012 03:27:15 |
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Charles Olson aka Wilson b 1834 in maybe Oslo
