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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
 Posted - 14/02/2014 : 07:53:53
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Hi Jane, To be perfectly honest at 61 years I think I was overwhelmed at the responses. Some were so far off and others so close and it got to me.
Let's recap, I found the photo of Charles and his wife and I found the original information that lists him from KRISTIANSUND Oslo. It just said OF that place, but his birth of 19 Jun 1834 was in that same batch of information. One could assume it meant he was born there.
I have found on one or more occasion and have documents that Charles son was called Charles John Jr meaning that the Charles in question was indeed a Charles John or Carl Johan as the case may be. Even with a common name of Olsen, put it together with an exact birth and location, chances are it's a good guess. |
JJW |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2014 : 05:57:20
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| Hi Jack, welcome back! It would take some time to study this topic and reread to remind ourselves of what was found. Maybe you could summarize a bit more about who Charles was and what was discovered about Carl Johan Olsen? Just off the top of my head it seems no one was able to find an absolutely solid document linking your Charles with the one in Kristiansund, but it sure seemed like Carl Johan could be "yours." |
Edited by - JaneC on 15/02/2014 22:25:50 |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2014 : 06:16:45
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Hi Jane, Looking back at the posts I see where I did say I believed the one in Kristiansted was the one. I have added the 1900 census. I think at this point is if there is more data on the family in Oslo, we might find Charles. Eh?
1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Charles Wilson
Age: 64
Birth Date: Jun 1835
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1900: Brooklyn Ward 5, Kings, New York
[Kings]
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1863
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Catherine E Wilson
Marriage Year: 1863
Years Married: 37
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway |
JJW |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2014 : 22:24:22
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Thanks, that's a start. You might want to have a go yourself at the Norwegian genealogy records, Jack, if no volunteer comes to help. As I recall I had tried what I could and I don't know but maybe that's true for others as well. I think the Family Search website has a tutorial on how to use the archives. The Norway census of 1801 would have come before Carl's birth and the 1865 would have occurred after he left, if I remember the timeline for Charles correctly.
Norway Digital Archives
http://www.arkivverket.no/eng/Digitalarkivet
Parish registers for Kristiansund:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_fylke=15&idx_kommune=Kristiansund&idx_kilde=Alle&idx_periode=&idx_textsearch=&js=j
Carl Johan's birth here, #88
Møre og Romsdal county, Kristiansund, Parish register (official) nr. 572A06 (1832-1842), Birth and baptism records 1834, page 16.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20070913620566.jpg
Did anybody discuss why the birth record has that little cross included? I am wondering if it means he died. I do not know, I do not recall. You'll have to reread this thread.
Link to migration records (people requesting permission to leave the parish):
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_id=6414
Words of advice on using the archives:
http://www.arkivverket.no/eng/Using-the-Archives/Genealogical-Research
About finding out more about the family in Oslo, as you mention: I recall the birth record from Kristiansund but I do not recall the family being found in Oslo or connected to Oslo (Kristiania). Maybe you misspoke, or I have forgotten. Kristiansund is a different place.
BTW isn't it amazing that you are in the Philippines yet you can research the church books in Norway. Gotta love the internet! |
Edited by - JaneC on 16/02/2014 21:30:58 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 01:42:37
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
I am breathless with all this new information! EUREKA!!!!!!!!
You have found a CARL WILSON FROM CHRISTIANSUND ! ! ! ! ! ! We have:
Charles John Wilson of Brooklyn, likely born 19 June 1834 in Christiansund
Family lore says he was born "Olsen" according to opening post
Carl Johan Olsen born 19 June 1834.in Christiansund
Karl Johan, king of Norway, aka Charles John
Charles Wilson of Brooklyn has a son Charles John
Charles Wilson of Brooklyn is a seafaring man first and then, as he becomes a family man and works from home, he works on boats in the harbor
Carl Johan Olsen of Christiansund has a father and family who are seafaring people and people who work on boats
Carl Johan Olsen of Christiansund has not been found in later census in Norway, even though his mother and siblings are found.
A Carl Wilson from Christiansund jumps ship; no person named Carl Wilson exists in Christiansund,
"Our" Charles Wilson of Brooklyn jumps ship
Seaman's records for Carl Wilson of Christiansund born about 1833-1835
Taken together, the facts accumulated make it likely we have found the right person in Norway.
A DNA test could be done to establish further proof, working with a descendant of Ole Olsen Hammer in Norway. Further records on Charles in USA can be checked (such as the original of the naturalization record, probably the one in Kings County.)
This was posted on page 15. Just now I added the stuff in bold. I guess this could serve as a quick recap / reminder of what happened in this thread.
The opening post (first post) says family lore (that is, your own family archives) list him as born "Olsen" and that "Wilson" was a name he took in the uSA. That got left off my original summary, above. Added it just now - an important detail.
As for searching the Norwegian archives, you are looking for Carl Johan Olsen. If a record can be found for him in Norway, after your Charles arrived USA, then he's not your Charles. In the searches the forum did, Carl Johan did not turn up in Norway after the point Charles arrived in USA.
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Edited by - JaneC on 16/02/2014 02:16:36 |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 02:03:18
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| It does look good. The records fry my brain. I wish I knew Norwegian. |
JJW |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 02:25:47
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The records fry your brain, do you mean the records posted in this forum? You can read them, work with them, study them, write each on a card and lay them on the table in a chronology, and so on, and you can grasp them. Had all the family information and USA information been posted correctly from the beginning, it's possible Carl Johan Olsen might have been the only candidate considered by the forum, and your sense of certainty and clarity about him would have been heightened. Part of what was confusing was that the forum was trying hard to work with the iffy dates and iffy place names and no middle name for Charles (but his son was later found to be Charles John JUNIOR) and other misleading or missing information from the USA side. Regardless, even if you and I and the USA side had done a perfect job of presenting USA records, the search would still have ended in the same place: with an excellent candidate who is probably your Charles but who has not been absolutely proved to be him. As I mentioned way back when, it's possible only a Y-DNA test can give certain proof (testing the son of a son of a son to determine male lineage).
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Edited by - JaneC on 16/02/2014 02:43:51 |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 02:29:42
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| Great points. Of course it would be wonderful if there were many offsring of the family and one is doing genealogy! :) |
JJW |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 18:43:37
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Thanks for sharing the links to your family memorial at findagrave and your web page. Sweet and moving.
Not to pick nits, but I must get this clarified:
On the findagrave memorial you give Charles Wilson a birthdate of 19 June 1834 (which is the birthdate of Carl Johan Olsen) and place of Oslo, Oslo county, Norway.. Originally the birthdate information you had was "9 June 1834 in Oslo."
Carl Johan Olsen whose birthdate is now on the memorial was probably born in Kristiansund, Møre og Romsdal fylke, Norway and was certainly baptized there. There is no notation on the baptism that says "født i Kristiania."
So it's like you have the "wing" of one and the "leg" of the other put together to make the whole. Having been a veteran of the topic I remember how everything was arrived at but the uninitiated visiting the memorial will likely not have the back story...
And I'm very curious what exactly is on the headstones? Even if they have lichen, etc upon them to photograph better you could chalk them a bit to make the wording legible and then wash them down with distilled water so they are left the way they are... |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 20:50:52
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| Now I am confused. I checked the memorial and I had the date wrong so I corrected it. I have had alternating dates for him based on the census records. That is because I have found census records to be wrong quite often, The date found on the photo is 19 June 1834 and the place is Oslo,Kristiansand. There is no headstone and I have researched the paperwork at the Greenwood Cemetery but it produced nothing. |
JJW |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2014 : 22:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by JackWilson
Now I am confused. I checked the memorial and I had the date wrong so I corrected it. I have had alternating dates for him based on the census records. That is because I have found census records to be wrong quite often, 1.The date found on the photo is 19 June 1834 and the place is Oslo,Kristiansand.
2. There is no headstone and I have researched the paperwork at the Greenwood Cemetery but it produced nothing.
1. So there is a handwritten message on (the photo of Charles and Catherine or some other photo entirely?) that says Charles was born on 19 June 1834 at Oslo Kristiansund? Why not include an image of that message on the memorial as well?
2. So the picture of the three headstones on the findagrave memorial is merely a picture of the general area where your folks are buried in the cemetery? |
Edited by - jkmarler on 16/02/2014 22:04:37 |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 17/02/2014 : 00:37:26
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| The three stones are for children. There are 32 people in that lot. I don't think the photo of words would look good on the memorial. |
JJW |
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JackWilson
Junior member
Philippines
62 Posts |
Posted - 17/02/2014 : 00:50:52
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| Send your email address to 7101@usa.net. I just scanned the image so you can see it. |
JJW |
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Charles Olson aka Wilson b 1834 in maybe Oslo
