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luellastilley
Junior member
USA
42 Posts |
 Posted - 18/11/2013 : 16:58:59
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I have Marthe Rognaldsdatter BELLE (b. abt 1793) married to Knud SIMONSEN 12 Nov 1823, Aurland. Where did the BELLE surname come from?
Her parents, Rognald KNUDSEN (b. abt 8 Mar 1760)/Anna ELLINGSDATTER (b. abt 1758): I also know that Rognald was a twin of Luchriis. No surname for Anna? When/where were they married?
Thank you for any information in this line. 
Luella
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Luella |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 17:16:22
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My comments below don't take the place of the original research help you are seeking! But perhaps they can boost the "starter" info a little.
In case it helps the Norway researchers, there's more about the family here:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4059&SearchTerms=Rognald
Anna Ellingsdatter has the patronymic "last" name of Ellingsdatter. That is her name. Perhaps you are wondering what "identifier" name (often an address, such as a farm name) may have been attached to her name "Anna Ellingsdatter." One family tree creator suggests the place name "Ty." The family tree below says she married Rognald 1784 in Aurland (Bjelde), Norway (not verified by me).
In the earlier thread, jwiborg referred to Knud as "Knud Simonsen Stundal." The "Knud Simonsen" part of the name stays with Knud throughout life. An address name (Stundal) can change as he moves. Alternate spellings for people's names and for places add another level of complexity.
One of your respondents referred to Marta as "Marta Rognaldsdatter Bjelde."
A family tree for Marta is here:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=davidbpp&id=I2689
This tree says she's born in Aurland (Bedle) - I think this place would be Bedle, Aurland, Sogn og Fjordane, Norway? One of the challenges for us Americans is to get the full place name right - and one of the many ways the researchers here help us.
Here is a person who visited the Bjelde farm in Aurdal, and says the area is very beautiful (I mention because sometimes it can be fun to contact a person who has visited a place where ancestors lived):
http://newsarch.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/NORWAY/1999-12/0944447329
Back in an edit to say Einar then found that Bjelde is the same place as Belle. This is a farm name. Your ancestor lived there, and that is why the name of this farm attaches to her name. (Kind of like saying "Barack Obama WashingtonDC." Previously he was "Barack Obama Chicago.") In the days of few people and scattered farms and tiny villages, this system worked to identify someone. There could be two people named Ole Jensen within a close area. So they would refer to "Ole Jensen Belle" to clarify they mean the guy living on the Belle farm, not the other Ole Jensen on that other farm.
As mentioned, this same tree gives Anna as "Anna Ellingsdtr. Ty" born 1757 in Aurland (Ty), Norway.
This same tree lists the twin of Rognald as Lukris Knutsdatter Bjelde.
American family trees are confusing to use as helps; some people list the identifier name as a permanent surname and some use the patronymic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_family_name_etymology |
Edited by - JaneC on 26/11/2013 00:33:04 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 19:15:27
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Marthe Rognaldsdatter, her parents and siblings in 1801. Farmname Belle.
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Einar |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 19:24:11
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Einar, may I ask a question? I hope you don't mind. I think luella is asking about the farm name "Belle" and it's a little confusing.
The farm "Belle" is in Wangens sogn, Uhrlands prestegjeld, Nordre Bergenhuus amt.
Nordre Bergenhuus amt = the amt name nowadays would be Sogn og Fjordane, yes?
Uhrlands = Aurland?
Wangen = Vangen
and perhaps Belle was later called Bjelde?
luellastilley, this Wikipedia entry tells about "Nordre Bergenhus" amt name:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordre_Bergenhus
Aurland:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurland
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Edited by - JaneC on 18/11/2013 19:56:16 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 20:00:48
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quote:
Nordre Bergenhuus amt = the amt name nowadays would be Sogn og Fjordane, yes?
Uhrlands = Aurland?
and perhaps Belle was later called Bjelde
- yes and even Bielle could be used.
It seems like the farms name today is Belle, see map.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 18/11/2013 20:01:42 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 20:05:37
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By the way, Knud Simonsen was a widower when he married Marthe from Belle in 1823, #16.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 18/11/2013 20:06:07 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 20:12:05
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
quote:
Nordre Bergenhuus amt = the amt name nowadays would be Sogn og Fjordane, yes?
Uhrlands = Aurland?
and perhaps Belle was later called Bjelde
- yes and even Bielle could be used.
It seems like the farms name today is Belle, see map.
Thank you! |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 20:26:37
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Marthe Rognaldsdatter, Belle was baptized "Marita" (=Marthe) on April 15 1792, last record on right page.
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Einar |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2013 : 20:52:51
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Knud Simonsen, his parents and siblings in 1801.
Knud Simonsen, Stundalen was baptized Nov 1 1789, 3rd record from bottom of right page. Father Simon Pedersen, Stundalen and mother Giertrud Knudsdatter. (Note that Rognald Knudsen, Belle was one of the witnesses.)
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 19/11/2013 : 00:01:32
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Another family tree link
Witness Rognald Knudsen Belle in 1789 was Giertrud Knudsdatter brother.
The father Knud Olsen Midje was acc. the family tree b. 1718, he was bap. Dec. 26. 1718, see last posting left page;
Feria 1......Olle Rognaldsen........Knud...link
Kċre |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/11/2013 : 00:31:40
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Cool! luellastilley is asking about Anna Ellingsdatter (b abt 1758) who married Rognald Knudsen. Is it correct she was born in Ty? Using the same tree Kċre posted, says her parents are Elling Kristenson Bjelde (1730-1795) and Marta Pedersdatter Ty (1730-1805).
By The Way Einar I love that map. Perfect! Now luella can see exactly the place in Norway where that name "Belle" comes from. |
Edited by - JaneC on 19/11/2013 00:37:55 |
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 19/11/2013 : 17:54:45
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Probate Knud Knudsen Bjelde.
Its a large probate and covers almost two pages. Only the names are readable, the content is dif. to understand link.
Page 329b, right column on top.
Nr 34 "Aar" Year 1825 Mai 25 Aurland bailiff district...
5. line "Gaardmand" Farmer Knud Knudsen Bjelde
9. line from bottom is Knuds wife Kirstina Guttormedatter.
Page 330a, left column almost on top;
#3 Rognald Knudsen Mjelde.
#4 Sister Ingeborg Knudsdatter, dead, leaving 7 children; 5 sons and 2 daughters.
Last postings right colum ends with valuation in Speciedaler, Ort and Shilling of "Kobber" Copper, "Tinn" Tin and "Jernfang" Tools etc partly made of iron where also Rognald Bjelde is mentioned.
One Speciedaler 1825 is ca 60 US Dollar 2013.
Kċre
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Edited by - Kċarto on 19/11/2013 18:56:31 |
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melmoody
New on board
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 25/11/2013 : 00:39:03
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
Cool! luellastilley is asking about Anna Ellingsdatter (b abt 1758) who married Rognald Knudsen. Is it correct she was born in Ty? Using the same tree Kċre posted, says her parents are Elling Kristenson Bjelde (1730-1795) and Marta Pedersdatter Ty (1730-1805).
By The Way Einar I love that map. Perfect! Now luella can see exactly the place in Norway where that name "Belle" comes from.
Anna Ellingsdatter is my husband's ggggg-grandmother. According to the Aurland Ĉttebok, in my possession, Anna Ellingsdatter's parents are correct. (Vol 2, pg 14, 149) She is from Ty. |
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BELLE - KNUDSEN - ELLINGSDATTER
