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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
 Posted - 02/02/2015 : 00:12:16
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| Anna Marie Jorgensen's Norwegian birthdate I have as March 1838 vs April 7, 1838. .....could be her baptismal date ??? I will see if I can find it on parish records. |
Lorne Johnson |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2015 : 00:48:27
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| Page 10, line 11 Drangedal i Tordal 1838 ....dates are confirmed....not sure which date is the DOB and which is the baptism. Looks like the baptism date is April 8, birthdate March ??...hard to read. |
Lorne Johnson |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2015 : 01:01:06
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Smiling, cause I just looked it up also. Anne Maria, born 08 March 1838, baptized 08 April, Tørdal in Drangedal, Telemark.
It has happened before that a baptism date is remembered as a birth date, and obit dates given are dependent on an informant who is not the principal (not Anne Maria). Didn't find an Anne Maria born 07 April 1838 in Tørdal i Drangedal klokkerbok. As a whole, Anna Mary Georgeson Elson obit captures the picture developed for Siri's family.
One striking feature of the obit is that Anna was one of seven children who emigrated with their parents. Same is true for Siri.
In my opinion, the likelihood that Sarah Hannah Nelson is Siri Johanne Jørgensdatter is now extremely high. |
Edited by - JaneC on 02/02/2015 01:44:02 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2015 : 20:18:39
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| I just received the IDA library information. The Long Prairie Parish records included baptisms for Sarah and Andrew's children. On the record Sarah is indicated as Sara Jorgensdatter |
Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 14/02/2015 22:41:45 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2015 : 21:12:52
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Well that's very interesting! Certainly suggests Sarah's father was a Jorgen Nelson (or similar - Nelson from marriage and pension record). A wonderful find and bravo for the research librarian as well!
Not to press or demand too much, but may I ask and suggest:
Was there a religious ceremony (church book record) for marriage of Sarah and Andrew?
Who are the baptismal sponsors of Sarah-Andrew children?
Can you post full transcriptions of the church records found?
Did a Jorgen or George Nilsen or Nelson die there ca mid-1850s-early 1860?
Was death of Dorthe Nelson (1860 census name) or Dorthe Georgeson (1870 name) recorded?
Who are the baptismal sponsors for Nels's children?
Is marriage or death or other records recorded of Nels or Anne Marie or the other candidate siblings?
In sum, what records if any were found to support the Long Prairie family being Siri's family?
It sure would be a wierd coincidence if the Long Prairie family is not Siri's family! Siri became an even likelier candidate with this latest discovery of yours!
As an aside - it's great to have your interpretation of the records you saw, but we forum members can't assess that independently (for ourselves) without seeing the record or a transcription (a typed version). Think about the TV weather person. Know how they post the weekly high temperature, day by day, on a big board? Then they stand in front of the board, blocking our view. I wait for them to step aside so I can see the board. Do you? I believe them as they talk ABOUT the board - but I still want to see the board. In genealogy, in a collaboration, we try to step aside with our reading of a record and allow collaborators to see the record itself. We've discussed this before - maybe what you rec'd was incomplete (not the full record)? I hope someday we can drop the point and posting actual records becomes habitual. It's more work, I know, but also important when collaborating (modes of sharing are obviously not an issue in solo work).
Anywho, thanks for the update. Cheering for you! |
Edited by - JaneC on 04/02/2015 21:40:45 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 01:18:22
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As the IDA Library does this voluntarily I didn't ask for much more than the confirmation that Siri is Sarah. ....so I didn't get (or ask) for a church book record of Sarah & Andrews marriage. The baptismal sponsors were most commonly Sarah's brother Nels and her sister AnnMarie....also Andrew's mother Gunnild Nilsdatter and a Randi Thorsdatter. The librarian posted no information on a death record for Jorgen Nilsen or his wife Dorthea. No baptismal records for Nels's children were offered. I do have obituaries for Nels and Anna Marie. The fact that Sarah and Andrew were listed in their Norwegian names as Sara/ Sigri/Siri Jorgensdatter and Anders/Andrew Johannesen as the parents of the baptised children ....Nels, Jorgen (George), Martin, Dorthea Jorgine, Dorthea Kristine, Johanna Jorgine (presumably not all survived) and that the birthdates and names of these (not all) children are found in USA census reports as children of Sarah and Andrew Johnson is considerable proof that Sarah and Siri are one in the same. Also the fact that her siblings were witnesses to the children's baptisms gives confirmation that this Long Prairie family is indeed Siri's family. Also the use of the name Dorthea as an often used name for the children ....Siri's mother's name.......and the use of the name Jorgen ....her father's name.
I will read the names (not clear) of the sponsors once again to see if I can recognise Dorthea anywhere ....Sir's mother.
I'll try to make time to type up full transcriptions of the church records. |
Lorne Johnson |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2015 : 03:10:59
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| Helpful. You've now added MUCH information, critical information, from the records that wasn't posted earlier today. Big difference - and underscores my point, that the view from here was obscured. Thanks lorne. |
Edited by - JaneC on 05/02/2015 03:14:32 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2015 : 21:21:05
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Okay, here we go with a transcription:
OBITUARY
"Nels Georgeson
Capron, May 16 [1917]
Nels Georgeson was born in Torredal, Norway,Dec. 17, 1844, <--------------- and passed away May 5, 1917. He came to Chicago with his parents, one brother, and five sisters when but 10 years of age. In 1856 he came to Capron and has passed the remainder of his life in this vicinity, having lived at the family home, which was very dear to him, for over fifty years. He was united in marriage to Christye Knutson Nov 11th, 1869. To this union three children were born, Gulick Georgeson, Mrs. Carl Thompson, and Mrs. Ben Johnson, all of this place. He also leaves five grandchildren. Deceased had been very strong and vigorous....." Obit continues to say his parents, brother, and sisters have all pre-deceased him...funeral at the Lutheran Church...laid to rest at Capron cemetery
See #23. Here is the birth of Nils 17 Dec 1844 in Tørdal to parents Jørgen Nilsen Bøe and Dorte Knudsdatter on the same day (different year) as stated in the Capron, Illinois obituary. Link here:
17 Dec 1844 <-----------------
Telemark fylke, Tørdal i Drangedal, Klokkerbok nr. I 1 /2 (1814-1856), Fødte og døpte 1844, side 17.
This then is our closest confirmation that the family in Tørdal, Telemark is the same as the family in Capron, Illinois. This is critical evidence, which you say you had, and didn't post it, why?
BACK IN AN EDIT to reflect eibache's read of the record. My eyes must have glazed over. Thanks for the boost Einar!
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Edited by - JaneC on 14/02/2015 23:05:36 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 01:25:13
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| Posted February 1st....Anna May's ....(Anna Mary) obituary and her birthdate in Tordal i Drangedal parish records. I'm liking this person as a sister of Nels Georgeson. ....USA birthdate not an exact match birthdate of Anne Marie in Norwegian Parish ... |
Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 14/02/2015 22:54:57 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 10:33:54
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quote:
See #23. Here is the birth of Nils 17 Dec 1844 in Tørdal to parents Jørgen Nilsen Bøe and Dorte Knudsdatter on the same day as stated in the Capron, Illinois obituary.
- I read the date as Dec 17 1843, #23.
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Einar |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 10:46:09
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The parents Jørgen Nilsen, Bøe and Dorthe Knudsdatter, Støle were married June 19 1837, see #3.
They had the following children:
Anne Maria, born March 04 1838,
Siri Johanne, born Sep 19 1839,
Anne Jørgine, born Jul y 31 1841,
Nils, born Dec 17 1843,
Knud, born May 24 1846,
Mariken Christine, born May 04 1849,
Tone Jørgine, born April 24 1851.
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Einar |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2015 : 20:03:23
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| My limited experience with genealogy research has certainly made it very evident that birth dates are often forgotten, confused or simply were irrelevant in the big scheme of life. Without todays technology of having the ability to actually view the parish records, Norwegian immigrants had to rely on memory or perhaps the family bible ....which may not have survived the rigors of a 6 week sailing and the difficulties encountered with homesteading in a new world. My own father who homesteaded in Alberta celebrated his birthday on the wrong date until a close relative found record of his birth. Point being, I don't think we can discount that Nils Jorgensen of Tordal, Telemark is in fact Nels Georgeson of Capron, Illinois based on the differing birthdates. |
Lorne Johnson |
Edited by - lornejohnson on 14/02/2015 22:57:33 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2015 : 15:30:53
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| A pile of circumstantial evidence is strongly persuasive that Sarah is Siri. You've certainly put a lot into this, Lorne. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/02/2015 22:58:21 |
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lornejohnson
Senior member
Canada
287 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2015 : 18:05:22
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| The IDA library information that was taken from the Long Prairie Lutheran Parish records came to me as several PDF files. I made an attempt to copy the files to this forum but was unsuccessful. I will not be taking the time to transcribe the entire information onto this forum. For those that are following this forum and would like to view what I have I will gladly email the PDF files to you directly. JaneC ....I sent this information to your personal email on the 12th. |
Lorne Johnson |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/02/2015 : 21:05:25
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Um, okay I see the email dated 12 Feb now. 8 attachments. 1 is the obit for Anna that had been previously posted and a link provided. Two are obits for Nels including the one I transcribed and posted 07 Feb (no new info in the other). 4 are not relevant to the search for Sarah's identity although they are relevant to your family history in other ways (at least I don't see the connection and you've provided no comments and the records aren't labeled). 1 of the records is relevant:
Anders Johannesen and Sigrid Jorgensdatter are parents of daughter Johanne Jorgine born 15 October 1866; baptismal record includes Nels Jorgensen as a sponsor.
There. Transcription complete. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/02/2015 21:09:33 |
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Gunild Nilsdatterr Kleven under Askilt
