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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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Cyndi Perkins
Starting member
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 16/05/2014 : 19:19:27
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Yes, Jackie, he was using Ole W Rossing! I just looked at my tree and found that record. They ran away when my mother was small - she was the last child born to Ole and Bertha. Guess it never registered before 'cause as far as I know, he had used Nels Jergensen from the time they took off. I guess he figured he had to use his own name since it was a legal document. He died as Nels Jergensen. It was a mess.
As Ted said, the tree you found was mine and he's right! I am VERY excited about the information y'all have uncovered! Hope I didn't jump the gun, but it all squares up with what I have been told.
Yes, Granddad came to the US at the age of 16 and the people are correct in this record. http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=emikra1&personpostnr=96639&merk=96639
Also, the Fredrikke Gulbrandsdatter in the 1865 census has to be Ole's mother.
I am going to make it a point to look back at previous posts before I embarrass myself by asking questions that have already been answered. Just looked back at the preceding page's posts and found the 'illegitimate' notation. Thank you. That confirms the family tradition although I'm not sure it's familiar to all the family. Y'all are flat awesome! Considering all this, I'm thinking it may not be worth pursuing the dogtrail to Bertha's biological father. I am sure, though, that I can come up with lots more questions and new topics.
Again, many thanks!
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Ted Rolles
Medium member
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 16/05/2014 : 22:30:56
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| I'll work on trying to find any travel documentation that would show Ole Olsen, Ole Martinsen, Ole Rolles having been in Norway at the time of Kari's conception of Bergit. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 00:44:02
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| Generally, you'll find, in cases of illegitimacy in Norway there isn't a really big fuss or secrecy about who the father of a child is. Everyone in the neighborhood already knows who the father is, so really no need to make up a father--in most cases. The only prevaricatin' I've seen has to do with children born to a married man and a woman not his wife. And they usually can't make it stick and somehow the "real" father gets revealed. On forum there's been one case of a pregnancy in which the father was not known--the mother was institutionalized and unable to identify him. So very rarely is the real father unknown. |
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Ted Rolles
Medium member
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 01:51:29
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| Does that mean that Hans Olsen would have indeed been the biological father? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 02:20:38
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| That would be my assumption... |
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Cyndi Perkins
Starting member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 17:06:36
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Jackie, it's been puzzling me ever since you said this: "Iver Hansen Dokken the same fellow who was faddernes to Bergit and also reported the birth" in reference to the following information. Since I don't read Norwegian - at least not but a few words - will you point out where that particular tidbit arose in the record. I realize it may be quite trivial, but if ever I am looking at another record like this, I t would be nice to be able to comprehend who actually did report the birth.
Thank you and many thanks to all of you for the effort you put in untangling these long ago lives for us to be able to relate to them and record them for posterity.
quote:
Very interesting since they are on Grøndalen farm (in Hemsedal), #43 on this page:
Source information: Buskerud county, Gol, Parish register (official) nr. I 2 (1837-1863), Birth and baptism records 1853, page 144-145.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7751&idx_id=7751&uid=ny&idx_side=-79
And here is the parents' marriage #15:
Source information: Buskerud county, Gol, Parish register (official) nr. I 2 (1837-1863), Marriage records 1852, page 388-389.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7751&idx_id=7751&uid=ny&idx_side=-206
This couple is found in the Hemsedalslekthistorie on farm Træe, pg 384:
"Ivar [Trondsen] 1828-74-46 bonde i Træe.
Ivar fekk garden g.m syskinbarnet sit Birgit Hansdtr Brandvøl 1823-79-56: .... Kari [Ivarsdatter]1853 rtA (hadde ei datter Birgit Hansdtr 1879)..."
Some interpretation required. The numbers behind the name is the birth year, followed by the year of death, and age at death. RtA is an abbreviation for reise til Amerika (moved or travelled to America). It goes on to say that all the members of the family either died or moved away. Kari has at least one brother who also came to US named Trond b 1851, teacher in south Aurdal then to US.
#53 Bergit Hansdatter's, b. 29 Oct 1879
Source information: Buskerud county, Hemsedal in Gol, Parish register copy nr. II 5 (1875-1891), Birth and baptism records 1879, page 22.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1091&idx_id=1091&uid=ny&idx_side=-25
Here are Kari and baby Bergit leaving Norway in 1881. Interesting the man below Bergit is Iver Hansen Dokken the same fellow who was faddernes to Bergit and also reported the birth.
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=11&filnamn=emikra1&gardpostnr=30725&merk=30725#ovre
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 18:13:28
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It is in column 6/7 from the record of 29 Oct 1879. But I don't think it says Iver... looks more like Evend. Evend could be Even Hansen Branvold, who 27 Feb 1869 married Liv Nilsdatter Dokken in Gol, Hemsedal. 6 children born in Norway, 4 more born in America.
Begges 1ste Leiermaal, angivet af
Evend Hansen Dokken
Both their first "Leiermaal", reported by
Evend Hansen Dokken
Leiermaal: Illicit and punishable sexual intercourse between unmarried persons (between man and woman).
Normally, such information would be found in the very last column of chr. records. |
Edited by - jwiborg on 17/05/2014 18:26:15 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 23:26:53
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This is probably the census for Even Branvold and his wife Live.
1900 United States Federal Census
Name: Iver Branvold
[Iven Branvold]
Age: 59
Birth Date: Jan 1841
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1900: Ferry, Grand Forks, North Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1879
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Love Branvold
Marriage Year: 1872
Years Married: 28
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Occupation:
Household Members:
Name Age
Iver Branvold 59
Love Branvold 60
Iver Branvold 23
Nels Branvold 17
Peter Branvold 11
Sarah Branvold 15 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 23:42:17
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If yoiu click the Neste (ie next page ) button on the link Jackie gave for the emmigration of Kari and Bergit, you will see on that page an Even and Live Dokken and their family, This is likely the same family as the one I have posted directly above for the Branvold famly in the 1900 Census and the same person first found by Jan Peter. This also may very well be the same Even listed in the birth record for Birgit. I have posted below a direct link to the emmigration page.
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=1&filnamn=emikra1&gardpostnr=30735#nedre |
Edited by - AntonH on 18/05/2014 00:01:31 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 23:50:24
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To further confuse matters there is a Iver Hans Dokken and wife Kersti and family directly below Kari and Birgit. There is a list of 20 people from Hemesdal on this emmigration list. They may very well be related in some complex way that is going to take some time and digging to really understand.
This could be that same Iver Dokken in the 1910 US Census. And the same one I posted several pages earlier from the 1900 Census, althoiugh that one is somewhat confused by his use of the middle intial of N.
1910 United States Federal Census
Name: Iver Dokken
Age in 1910: 66
Birth Year: abt 1844
Birthplace: Norway
Home in 1910: Lakeville, Grand Forks, North Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1881
Relation to Head of House: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Kjirsti Dokken
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway
Neighbors:
Household Members:
Name Age
Iver Dokken 66
Kjirsti Dokken 63
Karoline Dokken 25 |
Edited by - AntonH on 18/05/2014 00:05:17 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 17/05/2014 : 23:50:32
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I do concede it's possibly Even Hansen Dokken.
From the Nørdre Brandvold farm in Hemsedalslekthistorie pg 362, Birgit Hansdatter, the mother of Kari and grandmother of Birgit Hansdatter was born to Hans Ivarsen 1779-1839-60 in his first marriage in 1809 to Birgit Persdatter (Grov?) had these children:
Margit 1810-85-75
Ingebjørg 1811-67-56
Anne 1813
Sigrid 1818
Margit 1820
Sigrid 1822-56-34
Birgit 1823-79-56
and Ivar 1819 reported after 15 years of records saying Ola Dahle was his father (!)
In Hans' 2nd marriage 1825 to Margit Persdatter Viljugrein
Per 1826-60-34
Kari 1829-94-63
Margit 1831-80-49
Ola 1834-94-65
Eivind 1836 bonde on Skøltedokken rtA
Margit unknown year of birth also rtA
This Eivind 1836 bonde on Skøltedokken rtA is identical to the Even Hansen mentioned by Jan Peter above. The history of the farm is found in Hemsedalslekthistorie pg 75-77 His wife Liv Nilsdatter was the first midwife in Hemsedal. Their children:
Hans 1870
Sigrid 1871-72-1
Nils 1873
Margit 1875
Ivar 1876
Sigrid 1879
Per 1880
Døkkji is the local name for the farm. It also has been called Skøltedøkken, Øldredøkkji but written as Dokken. Eivind sold Døkken in 1881 and moved to US. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 18/05/2014 06:01:00 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 18/05/2014 : 00:19:04
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One of the children of Iver Hans Dokken, listed on the emmigration list and born about 1881. was named Knud Hans. Dokken. Here is a death record for a Knut I Dokken, Birth is listed as about 1883, but note the names of the parents especially the last name of the mother Grondahl.
Washington, Select Death Certificates, 1907-1960 about Knut I. Dokken
Name: Knut I. Dokken
Gender: Male
Age: 66
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883
Death Date: 26 Feb 1949
Death Place: Centralia, Lewis, Washington
Father: Iver Dokken
Mother: Kjerste Grondalh
FHL Film Number: 2032781
Reference ID: 2921 |
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Assistance for "Grindahl, Karen 'carrie'
