| Author |
 Topic  |
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
 Posted - 26/09/2015 : 17:49:25
|
| As we dig further into this topic and the subject of Nils M Thonsen (or whatever spelling of the Nils M last name), it may be we are losing sight of the goal of connecting Hans Tonsen to Nils Josefsen born in Norway. I am not quite convinced that Nils M the sailor from Australia morphed into Hans Tonsen. However I am much more interested in the chance that Nils Josefsen son of Josep and Kristine could have become Hans Tonsen. There the conincidental facts do lead me to at least trust that we are on the right path. |
 |
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 07:49:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
As we dig further into this topic and the subject of Nils M Thonsen (or whatever spelling of the Nils M last name), it may be we are losing sight of the goal of connecting Hans Tonsen to Nils Josefsen born in Norway. I am not quite convinced that Nils M the sailor from Australia morphed into Hans Tonsen. However I am much more interested in the chance that Nils Josefsen son of Josep and Kristine could have become Hans Tonsen. There the conincidental facts do lead me to at least trust that we are on the right path.
I agree LYNDAL40 - the only reason we went off on the tangent of Nils M ??? the sailor, was in an effort to find HOW Hans Tonsen came to Australia. I estimated it would have been about 1872/1873, if he was born in 1851 or 1852 - also HANS TONSEN was working on a dredge in Newcastle Harbour by 1875.
The date of birth of Nils Josephsen fits with the ages for Hans Tonsen shown on the birth certificates of all 10 children in Australia, as well as the death certificate for Hans in 1906. The name of the parents - JOSEPH & CHRISTINE, the locality in Rogaland and proximity to Stavanger, the name of the older brother THOMAS MARTIN and the fact that the name JOSEPH or JOSEPHINE looms so large in the names given to the children of Hans Tonsen in Australia, as well as the name of NEILS. NEILS HANS JOSEPHSON TONSEN was the name given to his first born son - and on that son's marriage certificate, the name of his father is shown as NILS HANS JOSEPH TONSEN - quite a few coincidences if Nils Josefsen is not Hans Tonsen. I can imagine losing a father at 8 years of age would have been traumatic for the Josefsen family and may have lead to the 2nd oldest son wanting to get away !!
I am not good at using the search engine of the Norwegian Digital Archives, but I have been working my way through slowing trying to find a Nils Josefsen, Hans Tonsen, Nils Josef Tonnesen and even a Nils M Thomasen in any of those records. Not easy when I have to rely on translations into English (but I am learning some Norwegian words :) ) |
KAT |
|
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 07:58:06
|
MATERNAL FAMILY HISTORY OF NILS HANS JOSEF TONSEN
Knut Tonnessen Åkra
(1780-1861)
Anna Josefsdatter
(1781-1867)
Elias Nilsen Tjøsvoll
(ca 1777-ca 1819)
Berta Karine Gunnarsdatter
(c. 1783-)
Nils Knutsen Åkra
(1806-1888)
Serina Eliasdatter
(1806-1877)
Trulsiane Kristine Nilsdatter
(1831-1908)
Family links
Spouses/Children:
1. Joseph Tomassen Åkra
• Tomas Martin Josefsen Åkra +
• Nils Josefsen
• Josephine Karine Josefsdatter +
• Jon Kristian Josefsen
• Berta Serine Josefsdatter +
• Ole Johan Josefsen
2. Ola Åkra skipper Ådnesen
Trulsiane Kristine Nilsdatter
• Born: Feb. 1831
• Marriage (1): Josef Tomassen of Åkra in 1849
• Marriage (2): skipper John Ådnesen of Åkra in 1879
• Death: 21 mar 1908 at 77 years old
Birth notes:
Time of birth is taken from the reconstructed church book from 1842.
• Trulsiane married Joseph Tomassen, who was the son of Åkra Tomas Kristoffersen Åkra and Bodel Johannesdatter, in 1849. (Josef Tomassen Åkra was born in 1826 in the des on Åkra Åkra, and died on 5 Oct 1859 in Skudefjorden (loss).)
• Trulsiane then married skipper Ola Ådnesen of Åkra, son of Ådne Svensen of Åkra and Gertrude Olsdatter, in 1879. (skipper Ola Ådnesen Åkra was born in feb 1823 at Åkra in Åkra, and died on 27 mar 1895 at Åkra in Åkra.)
the names NILS, JOSEPH, TOMASSEN, THOMAS or TOMAS appear a LOT in this family tree sent to me in relation to Trulsiane's family |
KAT |
|
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 08:26:26
|
| In addition, one of Hans Tonsen's daughters, (I think it was SARAH) - is registered in the ELECTORAL ROLLS in Stockton (when Hans died) as SAREENA TONSEN - she also placed a memorial notice in the paper on the 1 year anniversary of his death in 1907 under that name as Hans' daughter. This is yet another name that appears in the family tree of Trulsiane's - being her mother's name. |
KAT |
Edited by - KerrieTonsen on 27/09/2015 08:26:47 |
|
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 11:57:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by KerrieTonsen
In addition, one of Hans Tonsen's daughters, (I think it was SARAH) - is registered in the ELECTORAL ROLLS in Stockton (when Hans died) as SAREENA TONSEN - she also placed a memorial notice in the paper on the 1 year anniversary of his death in 1907 under that name as Hans' daughter. This is yet another name that appears in the family tree of Trulsiane's - being her mother's name.
Any chance this could be the NILS JOSEFSEN we have been looking for ?? - Father of the Groom in this record
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW6D-R5T
It seems to be in the right general area - just north of Akra ??
If so then the date of the marriage - the fact that he had a son, so must have had either a common law or a lawful wife, would all serve against this person being "my Hans Tonsen" !!
|
KAT |
Edited by - KerrieTonsen on 27/09/2015 11:58:55 |
|
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 13:01:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Curious that he would adopt the name of Hans. Does not seem to be a name used in his family tree, at least not that I could find. Anyway this is likely a death record for the brother Thomas Martin.
Thomas M Josefsen
in the Web: Norway Burial Index, DIS-Norge, 1700-2010
Name: Thomas M Josefsen
Gender: male
Death Date: 12 Oct 1909
Burial Place: Karmøy, Rogaland, Norway
Age: 59
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1850
Thank you - I found a photograph of the Grave for this person, and his Wife Anne Marta Josefsen - on this site
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/index.php |
KAT |
|
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 13:14:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Tønnes is a first name in Norway that you find in the south and southwest of Norway mostly. So Tønnesen the patronymic is most likely found in that same area of Norway. Rogaland is included in that area. I'm guessing that it occurs fairly rarely in Australia so perhaps this fellow Neil Tonsen who died in 1899 age 54 might be related. Especially since one of Hans' children was named Nils:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FLJG-FZR
I finally tracked down an actual copy of this record for NEILS TONSEN from the Bundaberg Cemetery - it relates to a person who was born in DENMARK - was a farmer from Rubyanna, on the Burnett River in East Bundaberg, QLD and died in Aug 1899 - here is the scan of that record
http://library.bundaberg.qld.gov.au/sites/default/files/cemetery_burial_register_images/1899_07_17-1899_09_19.JPG
|
KAT |
|
|
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 17:51:22
|
This is likely the marriage of the Nils Josefsen you found in Avaldsnes, Rogaland,
Lars Nils Josephsen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Lars Nils Josephsen
Gender: Male
Age: 30
Birth Date: 1820
Marriage Date: 20 jun 1850
Marriage Place: Avaldsnes, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Joseph Lucassen
Spouse: Johanne Egine Johannesdatter
FHL Film Number: 307120
Reference ID: p131 #18
And this is likely the birth of the son Hans.
Hans Elias Nilsen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Hans Elias Nilsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 23 okt 1859 (23 Oct 1859)
Baptism Date: 18 des 1859 (18 Dec 1859)
Baptism Place: Kopervik, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Nils Josephsen
Mother: Johanne Egine Jacobsdr
FHL Film Number: 307121
Reference ID: 2:1SR8T84
See also number 9
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6254&idx_id=6254&uid=ny&idx_side=-107
Also the family in the 1865 Norwegian Census. With such a large family, it is hard to imagine that tis Nils Josefsen would emmigrate to Australia and start a new family there, also the birth year is way off.
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=1147&kenr=002&bnr=0080&lnr=000 |
Edited by - AntonH on 27/09/2015 17:59:49 |
|
|
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 19:16:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by KerrieTonsen
[
Any chance this could be the NILS JOSEFSEN we have been looking for ?? - Father of the Groom in this record
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NW6D-R5T
It seems to be in the right general area - just north of Akra ??
If so then the date of the marriage - the fact that he had a son, so must have had either a common law or a lawful wife, would all serve against this person being "my Hans Tonsen" !!
My vote is less likely for these reasons. The son Hans is getting married in 1880 which means probably he is a minimum of 20 years of age which means the Nils Josefsen b 1851 would only have been 9 years when this Hans was born. Not very likely to be the Nils Josefsen we've looked at before.
But keep on trying them on.... |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 19:25:16
|
Martin Thomassen #44:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1870, page 20.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-21
Josef Theodor Thomassen #32:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1875, page 37.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-38
An unbaptized girl of Thomas Martin Josefsen #15:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Death and burial records 1871, page 80.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-80
Thomas Martin Josefsen Akre faddernes to #66 and Thomas Josefsen Akre to #55 :
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1879, page 53.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-54
Thomas Martin Josefsen Akre faddernes to #17:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1880, page 55.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-56
--------------------------------------------------------
Baptism of a child of sea farer John Kristian Josefsen, Josefine Karoline #52:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1876, page 41.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-42
The marriage record of the parents of this child lists John Kristian's father as Josef Nilsen, so this entry may not be "in the family".
Also the death record of a John Kristian Josefsen Akre in 1878 lists him as an unmarried sailor.
________________________________________________________
Thomas Martin Josefsen faddernes to #17:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1880, page 55.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-56
_______________________________________________________
Baptism of a daughter Josefine of Josefine Karine Josefsdatter in which Trolsianna Nilsdtr and Berte Serine Josefsdatter are faddernes #10:
ource information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1877, page 42.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-43
daughter Nille Kristiane of Josefine Karine Josefsdtr # 21 with Thomas Josefsen Akre and Berte Serine Josefsdtr Dyrland as faddernes:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1881, page 61.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-62 |
Edited by - jkmarler on 27/09/2015 23:40:50 |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 20:29:44
|
Nils Josefsen Akre is faddernes to #32 & #41:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1870, page 20.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-21
________________________________________________________
Three of the family members as faddernes to #7 Berthe Serine: Thomas Josefsen, Trolsianna Nilsdtr and Berte Serine Josefsdtr (just a guess with all the Nilsen and Nilsdtr in this entry perhaps relatives of Trolsiana):
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1875, page 36.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-37
Johan Josefsen Akre and Trolsianne Nilsdtr Akre faddernes to #1:
Source information: Rogaland county, Åkra in Skudenes, Parish register copy nr. B 5 (1866-1881), Birth and baptism records 1879, page 49.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=15826&idx_id=15826&uid=ny&idx_side=-50
|
Edited by - jkmarler on 27/09/2015 21:38:56 |
|
|
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 27/09/2015 : 22:45:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
So he was also around for his confirmation in 1865 and also for the 1865 Census. , See number 18 and then served as a witness in two instances in 1870 at age 19.
Confirmation, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5698&idx_id=5698&uid=ny&idx_side=-231
Yes the last date was 4 October 1870, weirdly the same day that his brother's child was baptized, so in the same water, so to speak, but he's not named as serving for his brother's child's baptism.
In the records of Aakre Skudenes, he also is not ever again found in the records of through 1881 serving as faddernes and neither is he listed as dying in the burial records through 1866-1881. He wasn't named as the father for the baptism of any other child from 1866-1876.
No Nils Josefsen is found leaving the parish in the Skudenes records of departures 1864-1881. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 27/09/2015 23:37:18 |
|
|
|
KerrieTonsen
Junior member
Australia
38 Posts |
Posted - 28/09/2015 : 09:40:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
So he was also around for his confirmation in 1865 and also for the 1865 Census. , See number 18 and then served as a witness in two instances in 1870 at age 19.
Confirmation, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5698&idx_id=5698&uid=ny&idx_side=-231
Yes the last date was 4 October 1870, weirdly the same day that his brother's child was baptized, so in the same water, so to speak, but he's not named as serving for his brother's child's baptism.
In the records of Aakre Skudenes, he also is not ever again found in the records of through 1881 serving as faddernes and neither is he listed as dying in the burial records through 1866-1881. He wasn't named as the father for the baptism of any other child from 1866-1876.
No Nils Josefsen is found leaving the parish in the Skudenes records of departures 1864-1881.
Would he need to change his name to leave the parish without being traceable ??
Disappearing from Norwegian records in 1870 kind of fits with travelling across to the Americas, then across to Hawaii, then down to the South Sea Islands then on to Australia by 1873 ?? But can't locate him under the name Nils Josefsen or Hans Tonsen
I have a PDF file with the Family Tree of Ronald Leslie Tonsen (my former father-in-law, who died in 1977, just a month before my son, his first grandchild, was born) - in it I have theorised that Nils Josfesen is, in fact, Hans Tonsen - and you can see the names of ancestors and descendants - I can send to anyone to look at if you can give me an email address - mine is paddo@ozemail.com.au
|
KAT |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
HANS TONSEN
