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Julie Amundsen
Starting member
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - 13/08/2014 : 23:35:24
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Whew, that's good to know! You're not kidding, this can get wild and I certainly would lose perspective on who was who from where while trying to maintain consistency in the line!! I won't give up though.
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Originally posted by JaneC
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Originally posted by KċartoIt is probably just a coincidence that your name is not Julie Ommundsen 
Kċre
True! Einar was the first known immigrant in Julie's family - as we cannot locate his father Niels thus far. As far as Einar's name in the USA, he used all the names given to him at his Norwegian christening - at least one (or more?) of the records show him as Einar W J Amundsen. (W is equivalent to V -- W stood for Waldemar/Valdemar). In other words, the name carried over from Norway, intact, thanks to him.
Many Norwegian immigrants chose their patronymic name as a permanent surname in the USA. (Think Johnson, Pedersen, Larsen) 
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Julie Amundsen |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2014 : 00:13:23
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We have the right Nils Amundsen
Your Nils Amundsen was in Bjerkreim baptised Nils Ommundsen (Ommunds son) Ommunds daughter became Ommundsdatter
Wedding Kopervik August 18. 1864.
"Ungkarl" Bachelor Nils Amundsen born in Birkrem parish (Bjerkreim) living in Kopervik and "Jomfru" Virgin Kristiane Elisabeth Juuhl born in Fjeld parish (Fjell)
Fathers; Amund Nilsen Lillesvele and skipper Johan Wilhelm Juuhl.
You see, even his fathers name was changed from Ommund to Amund in Kopervik, see couple #11
Kopervik
Kċre
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Edited by - Kċarto on 14/08/2014 09:11:38 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2014 : 00:49:11
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Wonderful! A fabulous find! This marriage record was needed to confirm the identity of Niels with certainty. Hooray!
Also kudos to Julie's thoughtful family, who pinned the mother's name of Juuhl on baby Einar's breast, making him recognizable, beyond doubt, to his descendants. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/08/2014 00:55:01 |
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Julie Amundsen
Starting member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2014 : 16:30:26
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This is so confusing to me. Can you shed light on these names? If Nils Amundsen was baptized Nils Ommundsen, why would he change it when he got married to Nils Amundsen when his father's name actually states Amund Nilsen Lillesvele? As posted below "Fathers; Amund Nilsen Lillesvele"
Thank you for helping me sort this out!!
quote:
Originally posted by Kċarto
We have the right Nils Amundsen
Your Nils Amundsen was in Bjerkreim baptised Nils Ommundsen (Ommunds son) Ommunds daughter became Ommundsdatter
Wedding Kopervik August 18. 1864.
"Ungkarl" Bachelor Nils Amundsen born in Birkrem parish (Bjerkreim) living in Kopervik and "Jomfru" Virgin Kristiane Elisabeth Juuhl born in Fjeld parish (Fjell)
Fathers; Amund Nilsen Lillesvele and skipper Johan Wilhelm Juuhl.
You see, even his fathers name was changed from Ommund to Amund in Kopervik, see couple #11
Kopervik
Kċre
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Julie Amundsen |
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2014 : 20:05:38
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Do not be confused, when you have read it through a few time you will understand.
This is your ancestors.
Ommund Nilsen Lille Svele and Amund Nilsen Lille Svele is the same person, actually spelled Aamund when Nils married in Kopervik.
Nils did not change his name, Ommund and Aamund is pronunced equal and the priest wrote down how he heard it pronunced.
In my hometown because of the large number of German miners in the 1600s and 1700s we had at the same time German, Danish and Norwegian priests reflecting how different the "same" name was spelled in the church book.
For a better understanding link
Maybe someone who speaks English can provide a better expolanation
Kċre
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Edited by - Kċarto on 14/08/2014 21:22:09 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2014 : 22:48:43
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Some other articles discussing the Norwegian naming customs.
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/na12.html
From another article
"Our example father, Anders Olafsen Sandness, could be listed in the parish books or census as Andrew Olsen, Andrew Olson, Anders Olufsen, Anders Olafsen, etc. Remember that it is the church official or census taker or other government official who wrote the names down, and the respondents were usually not literate and may not have spelled their own names
This is the reason it is so common to believe you have found the right family in church or census records, except that the names dont quite exactly match. You are probably correct and the none matching names are actually the same person, just recorded differently."
And again from
http://www.kaldor.no/oyergenealogy/showmedia.php?mediaID=4
"Spelling
A common source of confusion when researching Norwegian ancestors are the many ways a name can be spelled in the parish registry (church book) and other sources on different occasions. It is not uncommon to find a persons name spelled differently at birth, confirmation, marriage and if and when that person served as a sponsor or a witness to a marriage. These variations can be minor, or so prominent it is difficult to decide whether it is the same person, even for someone familiar with Norwegian names.
One reason for the many differences in spelling was that at least before the 1800-hundreds most people could neither read nor write. The entries in the church books and other sources were based on the record keepers interpretation of the names given to them orally by the people involved. The record keepers (most often the pastor) often had little knowledge of the local dialect and maybe even less interest in local naming traditions. In general the spelling of both first names and farm names tend to reflect that Danish was the official language of Norway (before 1814) and in many instances also the mother tongue of the record keeper.
The spelling variations found for entries apart in time can in many cases be explained by different record keepers. However there are many examples of persons serving as sponsors at christenings on two successive Sundays having their names spelled differently in each record. The amount of variations in spelling vary from record keeper to record keeper and the records seems to get more consistent in the 1800-hundreds (when the ability to read and write became more widespread).
The challenge facing those researching ancestors is of course to determine whether one is dealing with spelling variations or an entirely different person. Unfortunately there are no rules of the thumb that covers which variations are acceptable and which are not in this respect. The clue here is that a name does not necessarily have to be spelled in the exactly same way for it to be the same person, and that you probably should allow for more variations than you would for a name today." |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/08/2014 22:55:14 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 00:48:33
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Good explanations. Julie,I am not sure which part was confusing:
1. Spelling variation
2. Patronymic names instead of "true surname"
3. Use of address name (place name at end of name to denote residence)
4. All the above!
Amund Nilsen from Lille Svele would have children named Amund's son or Amund's daughter...Bear in mind the address name (Lillesvele) is not lifelong. It can change when person moves. It is added to further identify the person, is not always used - it is not a surname.
As times modernized, so did names. Einar and Alfred are named the modern way. They are named Amundsen like their dad, instead of Nilssen (sons of Nils).
At this point we are ready to agree with your opening hypothesis, Julie, that your family is likely not related to Roald Amundsen. His father Jens lived in a different part of Norway and got his name Amundsen from a different father named Amund. |
Edited by - JaneC on 15/08/2014 04:49:40 |
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 14:04:48
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I wonder what happened to the father Nils Amundsen/Ommundsen (Lille Svele)
He was in America when Einar was conf. Oct. 9. 1887 and Alfred Sept. 30. 1888.
I believe the reason Einar and Alfred em. 1893-96 was bacause their father already was there.
Nils A. probably died in America before 1900.
Kċre |
Edited by - Kċarto on 15/08/2014 14:06:06 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 14:26:38
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| Agreed. So far, he hasn't been found. One idea is to write to the cemetery where Einar is. Maybe Nils had been buried same place. The ELCA (Lutheran church) archives might have a record of him. A Nils Amunson traveled to Chicago 1885, but is it the same man? A woman named Thora Nelson b 1868 in Norway, died in Chicago, had a father Nils Amundsen, but she is not with family in 1875, so seemingly her Nils is a different man. The boys used Amundsen surname in 1900 census. Usually sons would do same as dad, if he is also in USA. So a guess is Nils/Niels should also be known as Amundsen in USA. |
Edited by - JaneC on 15/08/2014 15:13:50 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 17:01:05
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I wonder if some of Julies reluctance to accept the evidence on Nils Ommundsen/ Nils Amundsen stems from another Family Tree on Ancestry.com owned by Devan Amundsen. As near as I can tell this person must be a close relative of Julie. In that tree the father and mother of Niels Amudsen are listed as .
Amund Olssen
Birth 1805 in Bolsĝ Prgj.
Death
Marit Nilsdatter
Birth 1820 in Bolsĝ Prgj.
Death
Children listed are
Niels Amundsen
Birth Feb 02, 1855 in Norway
Death
Ane M. Amundsdatter
Birth 1861 in Bolsĝ Prgj.
Death
Karl Amundsen
Birth 25 Sept 1874
Death
The one record cited for this family group is
Norway Births and Christenings, 1600s-1800s about Einar Waldemar Juuhl
Name: Einar Waldemar Juuhl
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 6 mar 1873
Christening Date: 14 apr 1873
Christening Place: Kopervik, Rogaland, Norway
Father: Nils Amundsen
Mother: Kristiane Elisabet Juuhl
The people below this group are well documented but the family listed above is not documented. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 17:21:46
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This is likely the family that the Devan Amundsen has used in his family tree. From the 1865 Norwegian Census
NHDC 1865
And the likely baptism record from Ancestry
Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927 about Niels Amundsen
Name: Niels Amundsen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 2 feb 1855
Baptism Date: 14 apr 1855
Baptism Place: Kleive,More Og Romsdal,Norway
Father: Amund Olssen
Mother: Marit Nielsdr
FHL Film Number: 124812
Also see number 14
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=2273&idx_id=2273&uid=ny&idx_side=-40
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Edited by - AntonH on 15/08/2014 17:35:41 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 17:42:26
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Maybe we can rule out the Bolsĝy, Mĝre og Romsdal Nils Amundsen. This looks at lot like him in 1900 and married And his mother still living with him.
NHDC 1900 |
Edited by - AntonH on 15/08/2014 17:43:20 |
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Julie Amundsen
Starting member
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - 15/08/2014 : 20:48:47
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Thank you again for all explanations of family naming. First, my confusion comes from exactly what everyone described with respect the same (or possibly) different people with combinations of father's name and also the person recording the names. I am surely a fact oriented person (not wanting to go by rumor) and hence my questions and stated confusion. It seems it could be common to find records to support a connection to a line that may be mistaken. I do not want that to happen so that's why I ask. I feel lucky in that my past is not so far away (200 to 300 years) with records of some sort available and still get an idea of who these people were who braved the development of what our country is now and who we are. I just love that because I know every one of these ancestors were vital in creating the person that I am today.
Also, Devan Amundsen is my nephew....I haven't had a chance to look at his family tree. I'll definitely be in touch with him to look further. |
Julie Amundsen |
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Topic |
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Help Finding Albert Einar Amundsen from Norway
