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snuppaelena
Starting member
USA
21 Posts |
 Posted - 21/02/2015 : 09:48:30
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| Jane, you are amazing with this information. I will check all those links, so interesting! |
Elena |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 21/02/2015 : 13:44:56
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It's fun! Especially after Jackie found the right Emma.
Here is Emma's dad Ole Olsen Moen, age 59, residence Lom, on the ship Harmonie, departing Bergen 06 May 1870, arrived Quebec 26 June 1870:
Link
One passenger, seven years old in 1865, wrote a memoir of her 1865 voyage on the Harmonie, Link
That bygdebok record of emigrants from Lom seems to be wrong about Emma's brother Ole. As posted by Jackie, he is listed traveling with Hans in 1873 (not 1874). |
Edited by - JaneC on 21/02/2015 13:58:36 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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snuppaelena
Starting member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2015 : 18:46:49
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I have been sorting through my grandmother's genealogy files and came across what she has put together on Amund S Larsen and Emma S. Moen, their children etc.
I do have that she visited area cemeteries for information on death dates on their children. I was told she did most of her research in the 1982, and I am not sure the sources of her information as she did all this to become a member of Daughters of the American Revolution. I believe her research on this family line was not main priority for forms of proof, census, certificates etc.
* will indicate noted from their daughter Ellena Amanda ( my grandmother, Maxine's, mother).
Ok here is how it goes.
HUSBAND:
Amund S Larsen
Birth: 15 Oct 1856 in Lom, Norway
Married 1880 Minnesota
Death: 2 Jan 1940 Kellogg, Shoshone Co. Idaho (in daughter Marie's home)
Burial in St Maries, Shoshone Co, Idaho
He worked as a farmer, he also was Lutheran
His parents listed were
*Lars Hansen Rusten B:18 Dec 1823 D 10 Apr 1893
*Mary Serkland (no birth or death dates listed)
WIFE:
Emma S Moen
Birth: 12 Aug 1857 in Vaagaa, Norway
Immigrated to the USA 1876 with her parents.
Death 1943 in St Marries, Shoshone Co, Idaho
CHILDREN:
1. Marie S.
Birth: Aug 1881 in Minnesota
Death: 1951 in Kellogg, Shoshone Co, Idaho
Married Richard Brockman
Children are: Mila, Ramona, Elva, Fern
2. Lars S
Birth: 25 Jan 1883
Death: ? in Oregon
Married Louis
Married ?
He was married twice
Child: Alvin
3. A Ole
Birth: 11 Oct 1884
Death: ? San Diego California
Married Jesse
Children: Unknown
4. Emma Aleta
Birth 2 Oct 1884
Death: 1923, Emida, Idaho
Marrried: Willie Wells
Children: David, Gwendolyn
5. Albert A
BIrth: 17 Oct 1888
Death: ? in Spokane, Washington
Married: Emma
Children: Alberta, Gerald, Evelyn, Beverly
6. Clara M
Birth: 22 Jan 1891
Death: ? Spokane, Washington
Married: Louis Larson
Children: Lloyd, Wilma, Alice, Thelma, Lorraine
7. Alfred S
Birth: 24 Feb 1893
Death: 2 Jul 1928 in St. Married Idaho ( was written as logging accident)
8. Henry Arnold
Birth: 9 Apr 1895
Death: 2 Nov 1985 in Estacaida, Oregon
Married: Lelabelle
Children: Wanda, Roderick
9. Ellena Amanda
Birth: 7 May 1897 Rockford Wa
Death: 27 Aug 1981 in Coeur d' Alene, Kootenai Co, Idaho
Married: 19 July 1919 to Claude Richard Barnes
Children: Maxine, Claude Richard Jr, Ina Lee, Frederick, Lawrence
10. Bertha Julia
Birth: 15 Mar 1898
Death: 4 Mar 1905
11. Edward Arthur
Birth: 25 Sep 1903
Death: 19 Jul 1957 in San Diego, Califorina
Married twice
Children: from second marriage John Amund, Lynn
And here all along I thought my great grandmother Ellena Amanda, whom I am named after, was the 8th child!
I do know a few of the notes were from what my great grandmother narrated to my grandmother Maxine.
A few death dates and names were clarified by visiting grave sites as most of them are local, like the St, Maries, Coeur d' Alene, Emida and Spokane sites.
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Elena |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 01:53:52
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Thanks Elena. Below, an 1880 US census record:
1880 US census in Albin, Brown, Minnesota
Ole O Moen age 50 (b abt 1830 - should be about 1818)
Ellen Moen 43 (b abt 1837 - should be abt 1823)
Iver Moen 18 (b abt 1862 - should be abt 1859)
Anna Moen 16 (b abt 1864 - should be 1868)
John Moen 12 (b abt 1868 - should be 1864)
Emma Moen 8 (b abt 1872 - should be 1857, if your Emma)
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=MINN1880&gardpostnr=5241&merk=5241#ovre
I've come to the conclusion this is likely the right family, and the ages (birth years) got messed up somehow. Ole O Moen with wife Ellen and offspring Emma, Iver, John, and Anne - all the right names, in the "right" place within Minnesota (Marit and Hans and Ole jr are in Albin in 1880). Pretty tempting, despite the errors.
1885 Minnesota State Census in Albin, Brown, Minnesota, is an Ole O Moen 67 (born about 1818) and Ele O Moen 62 (born about 1823)
1885 Minnesota State Census in Albin lists Hans O Moen age 32
Back in an edit to add this from Ancestry.com
Minnesota Marriage Index
Name: Emma O Moren, age 24 <---------- middle initial "O"
Birth: 16 Aug 1856 in Norway
Marriage Date: 11 Oct 1880
Marriage Place: Albin, Brown, Minnesota
Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Name: Amund Larson, age 24
Spouse Birth: 2 Nov 1856 in Norway
Spouse Marital Status: Single
FHL Film Number: 1309453
** Jackie added more info seen in the original of this record
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Edited by - JaneC on 28/02/2015 18:55:27 |
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snuppaelena
Starting member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 03:14:06
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| If that is the 1880 census in MInnesota I don't believe it is the right family as Emma Moen married Amund in 1880 and all our records show she was born in 1857. hmmmmm |
Elena |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 14:48:06
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I agree that 1880 census as a possible for Ole Olsen Moen, wife Eli, and offspring is a terrible match as to ages, and I previously rejected it and did not post it. We also knew of no Anne in the family. But after Anne turned up as a sister to Emma, that makes the candidate family of 1880 six for six on names.
Albin is a tiny community (about 300 some people currently). Usual pattern for immigrants is that family members would be near one another, and Emma's three other siblings were found already in Albin in 1880. Read about the geography, about Albin Lutheran Norwegian Church, and check a map to ascertain what the nearby communities are. Then check the 1880 yourself, searching for Emma's parents and sibs. As I say, these are small communities, meaning you can actually read each page of the original handwritten census - that's doable. The 1880 US census is available on Ancestry.com. Ancestry does not require a fee to view that census year - 1880 census is fully accessible for free. You can also do a broad global search throughout the USA.
Emigration records for everyone in Emma's birth family have been posted, and a burial place for Emma's parents has been noted (which you can verify by ordering copies of their death records and writing to the cemetery to obtain cemetery records). Therefore, you have a broad brush stroke picture of the family. If the 1880 census is missing in your files, so be it. You needn't establish their whereabouts in 1880 in order to have an accurate family tree. My bottom line is, I now suspect that the 1880 census for Ole and Eli and offspring is the one I posted - just badly mangled.
It is a little frustrating when records have errors, but errors and discrepancies crop up in every family history quest. Your own private, unsourced list of names and dates has errors. A baby is born 02 Oct 1884, and another 11 Oct 1884. In reading that, I hypothesize something is right and something is wrong.
Then one continues on, checking to figure out what is right, and what is wrong. After that 1880 federal census, came an 1885 Minnesota state census. I posted that also, and Ole and Eli Moen in Albin, Brown, Minnesota have birth years that are spot on correct. This lends credibility to the id of them in 1880 in Albin.
As for Emma getting married in 1880 in Minnesota, that's such a broad, vague statement we readers can hypothesize that you have no marriage record, even though you don't directly say that. Census Day for 1880 was June 01. So Emma is NOT likely to be in Amund's household on Census Day if they married after 01 June.
This family may have belonged to the Albin Lutheran Church, and you might try writing a letter requesting a look ups in their records.
Below, link to obit, Wilma Larson Ranniger, 17 July 1913 - 15 Sep 2005; b Emida, Idaho; parents Louis and Clara Larson; graduated high school St Maries, Idaho; predeceased by siblings Lloyd, Alice, Lorraine; survived by sister Thelma.
http://web.kitsapsun.com/archive/2005/09-20/68703_obituary_for_wilma_ranniger_for_.html
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Edited by - JaneC on 25/02/2015 15:06:04 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 16:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
It is a little frustrating when records have errors, but errors and discrepancies crop up in every family history quest. Your own private, unsourced list of names and dates has errors. A baby is born 02 Oct 1884, and another 11 Oct 1884. In reading that, I hypothesize something is right and something is wrong. ....
As for Emma getting married in 1880 in Minnesota, that's such a broad, vague statement we readers can hypothesize that you have no marriage record, even though you don't directly say that. Census Day for 1880 was June 01. So Emma is NOT likely to be in Amund's household on Census Day if they married after 01 June.
Part of the game is figuring out which record is correct and which is less so. Nothing springs, even if from the mind of God, as completely perfect, ever That is why it behooves you to get all the evidence there is to allay doubts and point you in the right direction.
There are two substantial records online about Amund's and Emma's marriage which occured in Oct 1880 after the census was taken. Here is the link to the county level civil record:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1-9832-44536-0?cc=1803974
Going back to the church marriage record, you can access this by taking a "trial" membership at Archives.com. At Archives they have a tremendous database of Evangelical Lutheran Church parish registers which were microfilmed in the 1970s which Archives then indexed and linked to a search engine. The setup there is a little bit clunky but a search for Emma Moen turned up the marriage in short order. The congregation is identified as "Long Lake Lutheran", in Wetonwen county (of which there is none but there is a Watonwan county!) it appears on page 300 (the left hand side) , is marriage #3 in 1880. Hans O Moen's marriage and is on the same page (it's #2 in 1880) and Carrie O. Moen's marriage is on a following page #302.
A.L. Lobben is the pastor who married Amund & Emma. His biography appears on pg 156 of Norske Lutherske Prester i Amerika 1843-1915 by O.M. Norlie He was pastor at St. James Minnesota serving 5 congregations (which are not individually named) from 1879-1886. He then gave up the ministry and became a farmer or continued farming until his death in 1904.
When you look at the marriage of Carrie O. Moen to Peder Hanson (he is actually identified two ways in the record Peder H. Eggen and Peder Hanson) you will see her parents are named "Ole Gunderson Moen" and "Berthe Arnesdatter", her birthdate is given as 8 Aug 1863, baptized 18 Oct 1863, confirmed 27 Oct 1879 (or 8?) in Lom. Since the names of the parents are not what is expected, it produces a question which I would alleviate by looking at the original parish register in Lom. Clearly something is in error but God's servant, the pastor, writing in God's book, doesn't get a bye, I'd have to go check him. It's the same process all pieces of information have to go through.
And there is a Kari born 8 Aug 1863 Lom recorded to Ole Gunderson and Beret Arnesdatter #138:
Source information: Oppland county, Lom, Parish register (official) nr. 7 (1863-1884), Birth and baptism records 1863, page 3.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6072&idx_id=6072&uid=ny&idx_side=-6
It would appear that this person carrying a name very similar Emma is not related, just having come from the same place and ending up in the same place but hold on. Look at the faddernes (the godparents) of Kari and you see an "Ole Rydningen". When Emma was baptized her father was named "Ole Olson Rydningen." It's possible that there is a relationship between the two Moen groups.
There is a birthdate given for Emma Moen in the civil marriage record but there is no one named Ingeborg, Embjorg nor Emma born on that date in Lom. You have to work back and forth to find the balance.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 25/02/2015 16:41:02 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 16:46:09
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In Gudbrandsdalslaget Aarbog #13-14, 1925-1926 in the listing for Lom is this entry on page 77:
"Larson, Amund H. (Sønstenes) [who resides at or receives mail at] Rockford, Wash. [came to US in] (1879)"
Did your folks ever live at or have as a mailing address Rockford, Washington? |
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snuppaelena
Starting member
USA
21 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 16:49:05
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| Yes Amund and Emma did live in Rockford between their time in Minnesota and Idaho |
Elena |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 17:15:27
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Long Lake Lutheran in rural Odin, Minnesota (rural St James):
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/thebouncingczech/8010477654/
Albion Lutheran Church (rural St James):
https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/thebouncingczech/8010467677/
Above link includes a history of Albion Lutheran that states "...decided in 1873 to affiliate with Long Lake, Odin, and Rosendale congregatipns and these then constitute a call."
A "call" is a position for one pastor. The pastor traveled from one congregation to the other. I wonder if Emma and Amund actually married at Long Lake Lutheran, or whether they married in Albin and marriages were recorded in one set of books by the one pastor (A.L. Lobben).
jkmarler, I see you returned and added a comment that addresses my question re the relevance of Clara O Moen. So no known family connection (as yet undetermined); Emma's father may have been a godparent of hers (undetermined); Clara is not a sibling to Emma. |
Edited by - JaneC on 25/02/2015 17:36:14 |
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lisadelozier
Junior member
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 17:30:52
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quote:
Originally posted by snuppaelena
If that is the 1880 census in MInnesota I don't believe it is the right family as Emma Moen married Amund in 1880 and all our records show she was born in 1857. hmmmmm
HI My name is Lisa, I just got this information from Elena. She is the one found me and I found a predigree chart from my 3rd Great grandfather Amund and Emma (Moen) Larson what I was told by son at the end but It does not matter but we both have the same Grandmother's sister as long as it goes through the same line. so what I found is Emma's dad name is Ole Hansen born 1798 in sonstenes, lom, opplund, Norway. and mother name is Anne Rasmmusdottter... what I found she was born 1802 in sonstenes, lom, opplund, Norway. What I was told Emma was born 1860 Sonstense-ele, Lom, Opplund Norway.
I am glad that Elena found me and saw me on my Ancestory and FB too. so that's how I was like puzzle and finding who she is and found that she was speaking of Amund S. Larson (thats what I have all the information and print out from Ancestory and Family Search and RootWeb Websites).
On Family search, I found Amund (spelled was Ammond Larson) as a other and have brother or cousin name Paul Larson on the 1880 US Census "Household Record", both were a Labor on farrmer and was with familiy member of Martin Hanson (possible Hansen?)
Again on Family Group Record shows
Amund Hansen
born 28, oct 1856 Sonstenes-ele Lom, Oppland, Norway
Die 2 Jan 1940
Married 11 Oct 1883 (?late married after having Mari?)
Parent: Lars Hansen and Marie Olsdotter
Wife
Emma Moen
Born About 1860
Married
Didnt say who parent.
so I hope this helps.. |
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lisadelozier
Junior member
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 17:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by JaneC
I agree that 1880 census as a possible for Ole Olsen Moen, wife Eli, and offspring is a terrible match as to ages, and I previously rejected it and did not post it. We also knew of no Anne in the family. But after Anne turned up as a sister to Emma, that makes the candidate family of 1880 six for six on names.
Albin is a tiny community (about 300 some people currently). Usual pattern for immigrants is that family members would be near one another, and Emma's three other siblings were found already in Albin in 1880. Read about the geography, about Albin Lutheran Norwegian Church, and check a map to ascertain what the nearby communities are. Then check the 1880 yourself, searching for Emma's parents and sibs. As I say, these are small communities, meaning you can actually read each page of the original handwritten census - that's doable. The 1880 US census is available on Ancestry.com. Ancestry does not require a fee to view that census year - 1880 census is fully accessible for free. You can also do a broad global search throughout the USA.
Emigration records for everyone in Emma's birth family have been posted, and a burial place for Emma's parents has been noted (which you can verify by ordering copies of their death records and writing to the cemetery to obtain cemetery records). Therefore, you have a broad brush stroke picture of the family. If the 1880 census is missing in your files, so be it. You needn't establish their whereabouts in 1880 in order to have an accurate family tree. My bottom line is, I now suspect that the 1880 census for Ole and Eli and offspring is the one I posted - just badly mangled.
It is a little frustrating when records have errors, but errors and discrepancies crop up in every family history quest. Your own private, unsourced list of names and dates has errors. A baby is born 02 Oct 1884, and another 11 Oct 1884. In reading that, I hypothesize something is right and something is wrong.
Then one continues on, checking to figure out what is right, and what is wrong. After that 1880 federal census, came an 1885 Minnesota state census. I posted that also, and Ole and Eli Moen in Albin, Brown, Minnesota have birth years that are spot on correct. This lends credibility to the id of them in 1880 in Albin.
As for Emma getting married in 1880 in Minnesota, that's such a broad, vague statement we readers can hypothesize that you have no marriage record, even though you don't directly say that. Census Day for 1880 was June 01. So Emma is NOT likely to be in Amund's household on Census Day if they married after 01 June.
This family may have belonged to the Albin Lutheran Church, and you might try writing a letter requesting a look ups in their records.
Below, link to obit, Wilma Larson Ranniger, 17 July 1913 - 15 Sep 2005; b Emida, Idaho; parents Louis and Clara Larson; graduated high school St Maries, Idaho; predeceased by siblings Lloyd, Alice, Lorraine; survived by sister Thelma.
http://web.kitsapsun.com/archive/2005/09-20/68703_obituary_for_wilma_ranniger_for_.html
This Wilma Ranniger is my grandma. yes she passed away 15th of september and Her mom is Clara M. Larson, Clara's parent are Amund and Emma Larson. I was told Larson is how it spelled not the Larsen. However its still the same parent as we are speaking of. so yeah. Louis came from Norway too and his last name is Larson also. no family related to each other and thats how she got married to Louis. Louis came in usa 1890's that I cannot find his family also.. not sure where he born. not sure how he came over here.  |
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lisadelozier
Junior member
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2015 : 17:59:33
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quote:
Originally posted by snuppaelena
I have been sorting through my grandmother's genealogy files and came across what she has put together on Amund S Larsen and Emma S. Moen, their children etc.
I do have that she visited area cemeteries for information on death dates on their children. I was told she did most of her research in the 1982, and I am not sure the sources of her information as she did all this to become a member of Daughters of the American Revolution. I believe her research on this family line was not main priority for forms of proof, census, certificates etc.
* will indicate noted from their daughter Ellena Amanda ( my grandmother, Maxine's, mother).
Ok here is how it goes.
HUSBAND:
Amund S Larsen
Birth: 15 Oct 1856 in Lom, Norway
Married 1880 Minnesota
Death: 2 Jan 1940 Kellogg, Shoshone Co. Idaho (in daughter Marie's home)
Burial in St Maries, Shoshone Co, Idaho
He worked as a farmer, he also was Lutheran
His parents listed were
*Lars Hansen Rusten B:18 Dec 1823 D 10 Apr 1893
*Mary Serkland (no birth or death dates listed)
WIFE:
Emma S Moen
Birth: 12 Aug 1857 in Vaagaa, Norway
Immigrated to the USA 1876 with her parents.
Death 1943 in St Marries, Shoshone Co, Idaho
CHILDREN:
1. Marie S.
Birth: Aug 1881 in Minnesota
Death: 1951 in Kellogg, Shoshone Co, Idaho
Married Richard Brockman
Children are: Mila, Ramona, Elva, Fern
2. Lars S
Birth: 25 Jan 1883
Death: ? in Oregon
Married Louis
Married ?
He was married twice
Child: Alvin
3. A Ole
Birth: 11 Oct 1884
Death: ? San Diego California
Married Jesse
Children: Unknown
4. Emma Aleta
Birth 2 Oct 1884
Death: 1923, Emida, Idaho
Marrried: Willie Wells
Children: David, Gwendolyn
5. Albert A
BIrth: 17 Oct 1888
Death: ? in Spokane, Washington
Married: Emma
Children: Alberta, Gerald, Evelyn, Beverly
6. Clara M
Birth: 22 Jan 1891
Death: ? Spokane, Washington
Married: Louis Larson
Children: Lloyd, Wilma, Alice, Thelma, Lorraine
7. Alfred S
Birth: 24 Feb 1893
Death: 2 Jul 1928 in St. Married Idaho ( was written as logging accident)
8. Henry Arnold
Birth: 9 Apr 1895
Death: 2 Nov 1985 in Estacaida, Oregon
Married: Lelabelle
Children: Wanda, Roderick
9. Ellena Amanda
Birth: 7 May 1897 Rockford Wa
Death: 27 Aug 1981 in Coeur d' Alene, Kootenai Co, Idaho
Married: 19 July 1919 to Claude Richard Barnes
Children: Maxine, Claude Richard Jr, Ina Lee, Frederick, Lawrence
10. Bertha Julia
Birth: 15 Mar 1898
Death: 4 Mar 1905
11. Edward Arthur
Birth: 25 Sep 1903
Death: 19 Jul 1957 in San Diego, Califorina
Married twice
Children: from second marriage John Amund, Lynn
And here all along I thought my great grandmother Ellena Amanda, whom I am named after, was the 8th child!
I do know a few of the notes were from what my great grandmother narrated to my grandmother Maxine.
A few death dates and names were clarified by visiting grave sites as most of them are local, like the St, Maries, Coeur d' Alene, Emida and Spokane sites.
HI Elena, I am so glad you found me and I just register this and I am so happy and is able to answer some question regard to our 3rd great grandfather Amund and Emma Larson (Larsen). I found that they found my grandma Wilma on this record and yes thats my grandma she passed away 15th of september. Clara M. Larson is my great grandma. I see the list of children are matching with mine. as far as I told you it was 12 children... my mistake its 11 children. they were as a farmer but later on down the road in 1900's that Amund has become interesting in working as a Logger, I do have a story from Great Grandma Clara. I will be making photocopy on that and put it on fb for our private group its 13 pages.
I do not believe Emma was born in vaga? but she born in Sonstenes, Lom, Norway. |
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Looking for information on Emma S. Moen
