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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
 Posted - 04/11/2016 : 22:03:00
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For anyone who may remember my search for Betsy Johnson (b. 28 Feb 1850), we've had a DNA breakthrough! We have a DNA match whose common ancestor should be only 3 or 4 generations back for my mother. This match has not provided specific lineage information to me, but he told me enough that I was able to find his well-traced line online. His ancestry is half Norwegian and half Danish. Since we have no known Danish ancestry, his Norwegian ancestry could get us past the brick wall for Betsy Johnson . . . finally!
Of particular interest to me is Johannes Hermundsen because he is a good age to have fathered a child in 1850 and Betsy may have gotten the Johnson surname from him. Here is what I know about him:
Johannes Hermundsen, christened 6 Jan 1818 in Vikoren, Vik, Sogn og Fjordane.
Johannes's parents are Hermund Johannesen (b. abt 1776 in Gjethus, Vik, S-Fjrd)) and Marthe/Maritha Maria Siursdotter (b. abt 1780, also in Gjethus). They were married 2 Jan 1815 in Vik, S-Fjord. (This information comes from a family tree at FamilySearch.org.)
Besides Johannes, known children are Magnilla (b. 1814 and the link to the DNA match), Martha (b. 1816) and Sjur (b. 1821).
I found a record of Hermund Johansøn, Marita Siurs Datter and Magnilla Hermunds Datter in "Church book from Vik parish 1787-1820 (1417P).
I have found lots of records at FamilySearch for Johannes Hermundsen, but I'm having a difficult time confirming if any are the right Johannes Hermundsen.
If anyone can tell me more about this Johannes Hermundsen, I would be most grateful. Hopefully this will be a quick search for someone who knows his/her way around the archives . . . unlike me!
Thank you!
Nancy |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2016 : 22:48:24
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2016 : 23:22:21
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It has a Carl Hanson Dahle b 1847 to parents Johannes Gullackson and Magnilla Hermundsdatter. Here is a Carl Hansen on Dahle and his parents are not those:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038253002693
Does this DNA finding name the person who is your connection between yourself and the database holder?
It gives 3 different wives' names for Hermund Johanneson. This might be one of the other wives' children b 29 Feb 1853 Elling.#26, otherwise I find no children with a birthdate of 28 Feb b 1849, 1850, 1851, 1852 in Vik.
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Parish register (official) no. A 8, 1846-1865, p. 44
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070306620168
Lined out the irrelevant bits |
Edited by - jkmarler on 05/11/2016 04:27:49 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2016 : 23:23:40
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Johannes married Abelone Dorthea Paulsdatter on 20 Oct 1843.
Children:
Mathias Andreas, b: 28 Aug 1843, chr 28 Apr 1844
Pauline, b: 17 Jul 1846, chr 18 Oct 1846
Olai Bernhard, b: 22 Jan 1852, chr 31 May 1852
Inger Paulina, b: 13 Oct 1854, chr 20 May 1855
Johannes relocated quite a long distance, from Vikøren to Kvæfjord near Harstad in northern Norway. Quite unusual in those days, but the fishing was good up there.
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Edited by - jwiborg on 05/11/2016 00:01:26 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2016 : 23:32:26
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Have you considered consulting the bygdebok for Vik, Sogn og Fjordane? “Bygdabok for Vik i Sogn”, 3 volumes by Olav Hoprekstad.
Your previous threads here for 'Betsy' are pages and pages long -- also consider summarizing the findings so we don't have to read through all of that. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:17:29
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
It has a Carl Hanson Dahle b 1847 to parents Johannes Gullackson and Magnilla Hermundsdatter. Here is a Carl Hansen on Dahle and his parents are not those:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038253002693
Does this DNA finding name the person who is your connection between yourself and the database holder?
I believe Johannes Gullackson and Magnilla Hermundsdatter are the parents of Carl's wife, Ingeborg Johannesdotter. The record you found for Carl Hansen appears to be the right one. Thank you!
The DNA tells us that how many cM (centiMorgans) of DNA my mother shares with John Doe and how many significant segments they share. It's a good match! It also estimates that their common ancestor is 3.5 generations back. There is no doubt in my mind that there is a common ancestor, but the predicted number of generations could be a little off.
John Doe and I communicated a little, but he has not responded since I asked if he would share his Norwegian ancestry. So I did my own research and found it online associated with his name. But I have to look at siblings, too, since I don't know where his line parts ways with ours.
I really tried to not post prematurely here because, as Hopkins noted, the previous thread about Betsy Johnson is pages and pages long. But I feel with this new DNA match, the answer is hiding in plain sight! I was hoping this Johannes might be the clue, but it doesn't appear that he is.
There are more lines for me to trace! |
NancyB |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:23:21
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Johannes married Abelone Dorthea Paulsdatter on 20 Oct 1843.
Children:
Mathias Andreas, b: 28 Aug 1843, chr 28 Apr 1844
Pauline, b: 17 Jul 1846, chr 18 Oct 1846
Olai Bernhard, b: 22 Jan 1852, chr 31 May 1852
Inger Paulina, b: 13 Oct 1854, chr 20 May 1855
Johannes relocated quite a long distance, from Vikøren to Kvæfjord near Harstad in northern Norway. Quite unusual in those days, but the fishing was good up there.
Thank you! Although I don't see a good candidate on the list, it helps to have as much information as possible. Very interesting about the relocation, too. Thanks for sharing that!
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NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:36:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins
Have you considered consulting the bygdebok for Vik, Sogn og Fjordane? “Bygdabok for Vik i Sogn”, 3 volumes by Olav Hoprekstad.
Your previous threads here for 'Betsy' are pages and pages long -- also consider summarizing the findings so we don't have to read through all of that.
Hopkins, you are so right that there are pages and pages on here about my search for Betsy. At this point, I don't think it would help anyone to go through all of that, but the very short story is that I know very little about my GGgrandmother, Betsy Ann/Belle Johnson. The family story passed down, and some of it stated in her obituary or on her death certificate, says she was born on 28 Feb 1850 and confirmed in Norway. She emigrated to Iowa in the United States in 1868 at the age of 18. A couple of years later she married a Swedish man, Alexander Anderson.
So many kind folks on this board looked (and looked!) for Betsy, but in the end, we couldn't find her. I am hoping that this new DNA link will narrow the search and give us the success that has eluded us to this point.
I'm sorry that I am not familiar with the resource you mention. |
NancyB |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:45:45
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Okay so here is Johannes Gullakson in the 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038253000367
So his wife (Magnilla) was probably dead by then, right? This lists two children I was not aware of. Guri is about the same age as Betsy, but the name isn't even close, unfortunately. |
NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 04:57:48
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quote:
Originally posted by NancyB
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Okay so here is Johannes Gullakson in the 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038253000367
So his wife (Magnilla) was probably dead by then, right? This lists two children I was not aware of. Guri is about the same age as Betsy, but the name isn't even close, unfortunately.
I misread the database, the three "wives" were of Johannes Gullakson, some married and some unmarried. Inger or Ingeri was the mother of a Birthe before they married in April 1849. So was your DNA test autosomal or only female mitochondrial?
Here is the marriage of Johannes Gullakson and Ingeri Jonasdatter #10:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Parish register (official) no. A 8, 1846-1865, p. 256
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070306620347
Magnhilde Hermansdatter in 1865 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038253003506
Magnilla probably in the 1875 census:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01052300001230
Her birth transcribed:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/255/pd00000010454088
Her death in 1885:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/gen/vis/267/pg00000002148161
Probable wife of Carl Hansen Dahle, Ingeborg Johannesdatter:
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038253002941
Ingebjorg Johannesdatter #93 her father's 3rd and her mother's first indiscretion:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 8, 1846-1865, s. 7
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070306620130
Johanne Johannesdatter #46:
SAB, Lavik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 3, 1843-1863, s. 5
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070305650216
Cecilia Johannesdatter #5:
SAB, Lavik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 2I, 1821-1842, s. 164
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070511610271
Johannes Gulakson age 15 #20:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 7, 1831-1845, s. 119
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650406
#12 Johannes Gullakson age 19 moving from Vik to Maaren:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 7, 1831-1845, s. 306
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650519
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Edited by - jkmarler on 06/11/2016 06:28:38 |
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NancyB
Medium member
USA
104 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2016 : 19:50:53
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
I misread the database, the three "wives" were of Johannes Gullakson, some married and some unmarried. Inger or Ingeri was the mother of a Birthe before they married in April 1849. So was your DNA test autosomal or only female mitochondrial?
The DNA test was autosomal. The good thing is John has no Finnish or Swedish ancestry (both in my maternal line), so we are able to focus exclusively on his Norwegian ancestry and eliminate his Danish ancestry (not in my line). Still, as every genealogist knows, the number of grandparents doubles with every generation you go back.
I looked at each of the records you posted (thank you!) and added details to the family tree I've started in my software program. I suspect I've gone down the wrong trail with Johannes Hermundsen, but there are many others where he came from! 
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NancyB |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2016 : 02:03:31
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Married on 8 Jan 1815 Hermund Johannesen and Marthe Sjursdatter, right page:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 5, 1787-1820, s. 314-315
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650053
a Hermund Johanneson age 49 dies in 1822, #12
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 6, 1821-1831, s. 337-338
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650245
a Herman Johnsen age 15 #2 under 1825:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 6, 1821-1831, s. 351-352
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650253
Magnilla second entry from the top on the right hand page:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 5, 1787-1820, s. 410-411
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650100
Parents' farms are Havenæs (mother) Nese (father)
Marthe 5th down from top of left hand page
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 5, 1787-1820, s. 428-429
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650109
parents on Nese
Johannes 3rd down from top on left hand page:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 5, 1787-1820, s. 444-445
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650116
parents on Wiigøren, most of the faddernes have Johnsen for patronymics
# 8 in 1842 Johannes Hermundson age 24 moving to Nordland
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 7, 1831-1845, s. 307
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650520
#47 Sjur Hermundsen born on Wigoren;
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 6, 1821-1831, s. 9-10
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650139
#43 Sjur Hermundsen
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 7, 1831-1845, s. 122
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650409
#6 1842 Sjur Hermandson 21 years old moving to Nordland:
SAB, Vik Sokneprestembete, Ministerialbok nr. A 7, 1831-1845, s. 306
Brukslenke for sidevisning: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070523650519
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Edited by - jkmarler on 06/11/2016 06:33:18 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2016 : 14:21:52
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Because it's autosomal, you will need to flesh out both the male and female lines because the connection to lay on either side.
Basing extensive research on somebody else's published tree is dangerous.
For instance in the tree whose address you posted, the parents of Marthe/ Marie Sjursdatter b 1780 are recorded as Sjur _____ and Alis Jensdatter. In looking at the 1801 census transcription, there is a Marthe Sjursdatter b 1780 who is listed in a household headed by Sjur Christenson and Alis Pedersdatter.
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01058392002228
But the bigger problem I see is that this Marthe may have been misidentified as the wife of Hermund Johanneson and mother of Magnhild, Sjur, Marthe, Johannes.
Here's the wife's and mother's name for each of the pastoral events posted earlier:
Birth of Magnilla / Magnilde: Maritha
Marriage to Hermund Johannesen: Marie
Birth of Marthe: Mari
Birth of Johannes: Mari
Birth of Sjur: Marie
Given the numbers alone, she might be Mari or Marie more than Martha/ Marta. If she is Marie there is one other candidate found in Vik in 1801 census who could be the mother (exclusive of course of anyone who moved into the parish between 1801-1815):
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01058392001894 |
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Need Help Tracing Johannes Hermundsen
