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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
 Posted - 04/01/2017 : 04:35:14
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asked were about my great-grandfather JEH and my great-grandmother Olia Pedersdatter Hansen. Thank you for the effort that went into the responses. They were very helpful to me.
The question for this post is whether my ggm OPH is the sister of the Norwegian immigrant Ole Pedersen Bakke.
The pertinent information is that Olia was born in May, 1850 in Meraker. Her mother was Marit Ingebretsdatter, born on September 3, 1819. Her father was Peder Olsen Bentz. He was born on April 15, 1831.
Olia was born out of wedlock. She was baptized at home by Ingebright Johnsen, Nordre Tommeraas. He was not Marit’s father (Olia’s grandfather). Marit’s parents were Ingebright Olsen and Beret Gudmundsdatter. There is apparently no information about the household in which she was raised. There is no indication that Marit and Peder ever married.
The 1865 census shows that she was 16 years old and living in the household of Ingebright Johnsen and his family. Neither Marit nor Peder is listed as being a member of this household. Of note, Ole Pedersen Bakke is not member of this household. The 1865 census shows that Peder 35 years old and living in a setting that does not include Marit, Olia, or Ole.
Olia left for America in April, 1872. She married JEH in 1877 and they established a successful farm in Pope county, Minnesota.
I recently found the ELCA church record of the baptism of their first child, Inga Mathilde. The sponsors l listed int the record were JEH’s mother, brother, sister, and Ole P. Bakke.
The ELCA church record of Ole Bakke’s marriage in 1879 lists his birth as October 10, 1854 in Merager, Trondheim. His father is listed as Peder Olsen Bakke.
However, multiple ancestry.com family trees list his parents as Peder Olsen Bentz born 1819 and Marit Ingebrightsdatter born 1831. This is independent of Olia, who is not included in the family tree. One of the family trees is petermariniuspeters-3.
Are Olia and Ole sister and brother? |
Eric M Hanson |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 05:41:52
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This is likely the Ole Pedersen that you refer to as the Ole Pedersen baptized in 1854.
Ole Pedersen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Ole Pedersen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 29 okt 1854 (29 Oct 1854)
Baptism Place: Meraaker, Nord Trondelag, Norway
Father: Peder Olsen
Mother: Ingeborg Paulsdatter
FHL Film Number: 307069
At the time that the Ole Pedersen that you refer to as having been in 1854 was born his father is referred to as Peder Olsen Bendtz in the original Digitalarkivet record. See number 55. Ole was born out of wedlock.
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20050511010985
eibache provided you with the link to this Peder Olsen in the 1865 Census in your earlier query.
quote:
The father of Olia Pedersdatter, Peder Olsen Bentz, was a miner.
In 1865 he was living at Tømmeraas søndre, link.
He was born on Røros in approx 1831.
At this time he is living with and married to Ingeborg Paalsdatter probably the same as the mother of Ole Pedersen b 1854.
https://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038333005850 |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/01/2017 17:01:56 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 05:53:46
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However born in the same sub-parish is another Ole Pedersen with father named Peder Olsen. but with a different mother and a different year.
Ole Pedersen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Ole Pedersen
Gender: Male
Baptism Date: 1 mar 1857
Baptism Place: Meraaker, Nord Trondelag, Norway
Father: Peder Olsen
Mother: Anne Marie Olsdatter
FHL Film Number: 307069
The original record can be found in Digitalarkivet
See number 16
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/2461/25
This Ole Pedersen and his father Peder Olsen can be found in the 1865 Census living at Bakke.
https://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01038333006142
Anyway you are probably dealing with two Ole Pedersen born about the same time in the same area with fathers of the same name. So you need to separate out which Ole Pedersen is the one you are interested in. And which one if either of them immigrated to America and is the Ole P Bakke that you found. |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/01/2017 17:24:13 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 17:32:13
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As you have found there is a Ole P Bakke that appears in America. Here is a reference to him from the ELCA records.
Ole Bakke
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940
Name: Ole Bakke
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Date: 10 Oct 1854
Marriage Date: 19 Jul 1879
Marriage Place: Portland, North Dakota
Spouse: Karine
Father: Peder Olsen Bakke
Mother: Ingebor Bakke
Church Name: Bruflat Lutheran
Church Location: Portland, North Dakota
This record is a very good match with Ole Pedersen Bentz, so probably worth spending some time pinning down the validity of the two being the same person and of course different than the Ole Pedersen living at Bakke in 1865 and born in 1857.
I have taken a quick look at some of the trees on Ancestry.com and I think you will need to make your own tree from the original records and ignore the Ancestry.com trees. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 17:54:44
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quote:
Are Olia and Ole sister and brother?
They were both born out of wedlock and had the same father, Peder Olsen Bentz, but different mothers. |
Einar |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 21:38:14
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Peder Olsen Bentz married Oles mother Ingeborg Paulsdatter March 3 1855, see #4.
Peder Olsen Bentz was born at Røros and his father was Ole Andersen.
Ingeborg Paulsdatters father was Paul Torgersen. |
Einar |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 22:01:48
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Ingeborg Paulsdatter was born Oct 26 1823, see #22.
Her parents were Paul Torgersen and Anne Guttormsdatter, Bakken. |
Einar |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 22:21:48
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In the 1900 US Census Ole Bakke is listed as having arrived in America in 1865. He would have been only 11 years old so he must have travelled with someone a family member perhaps?
Here is a candidate for his arrival.
Ole Bdersen
in the Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Ole Bdersen
Gender: Male
Age: 10
Birth Year: abt 1855
Date of Arrival: Jul 1865
Vessel: Bergen
Search Ship Database: Search for the Bergen in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Canada
He is traveling with this person
Marit Paulsdatter Skarmoe and her husband Halver Jensen Skarmoe
Found leaving here
http://www.norwayheritage.com/udvandret.asp?type=passengerlist&ps=8233&jo=208 |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/01/2017 22:30:24 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/01/2017 : 22:36:18
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Here is a marriage record for the couple. This would indicate that Marit is a sister of Ingeborg Ole's mother.
Marit Paulsdatter
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Marit Paulsdatter
[Marit Torgersen]
Gender: Female
Age: 25
Birth Date: 1828
Marriage Date: 11 jun 1853
Marriage Place: Hegra, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Father: Paul Torgersen
Spouse: Halvor Johnsen
FHL Film Number: 307069
Marit is using the Bakken farm name for her wedding record See number 9
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20050511011039
The sisters married brothers and hauled Ole along as well.
Anne Paulsdatter
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Anne Paulsdatter
[Anne Torgersen]
Gender: Female
Age: 20
Birth Date: 1838
Marriage Date: 17 apr 1858
Marriage Place: Hegra, Nord-Trøndelag, Norway
Father: Paul Torgersen
Spouse: Peder Jensen
FHL Film Number: 307069
Interesting in the Digitalarkviet marriage record for Anne she is given the Bakken farm name. So maybe how Ole acquired the name.
See number 5.
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20050511011043 |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/01/2017 23:15:10 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 20:32:27
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
As you have found there is a Ole P Bakke that appears in America. Here is a reference to him from the ELCA records.
Ole Bakke
in the U.S., Evangelical Lutheran Church of America, Records, 1875-1940
Name: Ole Bakke
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Date: 10 Oct 1854
Marriage Date: 19 Jul 1879
Marriage Place: Portland, North Dakota
Spouse: Karine
Father: Peder Olsen Bakke
Mother: Ingebor Bakke
Church Name: Bruflat Lutheran
Church Location: Portland, North Dakota
This record is a very good match with Ole Pedersen Bentz, so probably worth spending some time pinning down the validity of the two being the same person and of course different than the Ole Pedersen living at Bakke in 1865 and born in 1857.
I have taken a quick look at some of the trees on Ancestry.com and I think you will need to make your own tree from the original records and ignore the Ancestry.com trees.
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Eric M Hanson |
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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 20:35:44
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| I am quite sure that this person is the Ole Pedersen, son of Peder Olsen Bentz and Ingegborg Paulsdatter. Please see my other posts for the information that supports that conclusion. |
Eric M Hanson |
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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 20:38:09
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
quote:
Are Olia and Ole sister and brother?
They were both born out of wedlock and had the same father, Peder Olsen Bentz, but different mothers.
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Eric M Hanson |
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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 21:41:23
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| This information solves a family mystery. My now deceased father is the grandson of Olia, the child of her son Herman. My father's grandparents died before he was born, so he knew of them only through the stories is father (my grandfather) told him. The family history that he related to me was that his father's family lived in Mayville, ND. His grandfather and grandmother (Olia) both died of tuberculosis. My father told me that his father (Herman) told him that one of the Mayville, ND families, a Bakke family, had been especially helpful and supportive to the Hanson family during this time. The told me that his father referred to the matriarch of this family as "Auntie Bakke," with the inference that the caring and support that she showed him was comparable to the support that one would experience from a relative. My dad died in 2012, and my genealogical efforts started in 2014. Using what information I had, I tried to identify the family. There are multiple Bakke families in that area, and I had no information that would allow me to differentiate one from the other. Another puzzling aspect to this was that the Hanson family lived the Pope county, MN prior to living in the Mayville, ND area. This was something that my father never discussed, and perhaps did not know. The Album, published in 1888, characterized the Hanson family as successful and thriving. In 1889 they sold their farm, and then lived in the area only one more year (as evidenced by 1890 being the last year that they paid property taxes, e.g. sewing machine, not real estate). One possible cause of this abrupt change in their fortunes is the onset of illness, specifically TB, severe enough to render Johan incapable of maintaining the farm and other duties. It is likely that this is what happened. My efforts did turn up some evidence that they moved to the Portland/Mayville area. But why? Why would they give up their established community, with its ties and resources, and move hundreds of miles away to a place where, as far as I knew, they had no known connection? Olia's story of being a child out of wedlock seemed to eliminate relatives as a connection, and I made no headway in finding someone in the community that was a Hanson relative. I wondered if Mayville was a center of care for TB, but there was no evidence of that. Once I found the Ole P. Bakke as a sponsor of the first child of Johan and Olia, I went back and found the Ole P. Bakke and Karine Erikson ELCA marriage document, and then the evidence of their life in the community. Ultimately they had a family of eleven children. I have also found the following information: the ELCA church record of Johan's death and burial in 1983. His funeral occurred in the same church in which Ole Bakke was married. Also, Herman's confirmation in 1894 in a Mayville church and Olia's death and burial in 1896 in a Mayville church. Johan and Olia had four living children at this time. I can find information on three of the four in the 1900 US census. It shows Herman, age 21 as a farm laborer in a neighboring community, and Inga, age 16 and Sophus age 13 being cared for by local farm families. Sophus lived his entire life in the Mayville area. He died in 1971. All of this argues for a situation where Olia Pedersdatter, despite being born out of wedlock and not living with her father, came to know her half-brother and developed a relationship with him. That relationship was strong enough so that when they immigrated independently to a new country, they maintained contact and became intimately involved in the life of the other. Ole was important enough to Olia that when her first child was born, she asked him to be a sponsor, on a par with her husband's mother, brother, and sister. And Olia was important enough to Ole that when she and her family were in need, he offered to help. It is very satisfying to be able to put the pieces of this experience together, to understand it, and to realize that the behaviors that appeared arbitrary were actually based on deep human concern for one another. |
Eric M Hanson |
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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 21:47:13
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
In the 1900 US Census Ole Bakke is listed as having arrived in America in 1865. He would have been only 11 years old so he must have travelled with someone a family member perhaps?
Here is a candidate for his arrival.
Ole Bdersen
in the Canadian Passenger Lists, 1865-1935
Name: Ole Bdersen
Gender: Male
Age: 10
Birth Year: abt 1855
Date of Arrival: Jul 1865
Vessel: Bergen
Search Ship Database: Search for the Bergen in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival: Canada
He is traveling with this person
Marit Paulsdatter Skarmoe and her husband Halver Jensen Skarmoe
Found leaving here
http://www.norwayheritage.com/udvandret.asp?type=passengerlist&ps=8233&jo=208
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Eric M Hanson |
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ericmhanson
Starting member
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2017 : 22:01:49
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Thank you for this information. I had seen the reference to immigration as a child and been puzzled by it, as Ole's parents were identified in a A.com family tree as dying in Norway.
Ole became the ward of his aunt (Ingeborg's sister) and uncle, that is, they took responsibility for him as if he were their son. It is worth noting that they are immigrating as part of a six-person group. Halver's brother, also identified as Mr. "Skarmoe," Anne Paulsdatter, and their daughter Anne, age 6, make up the rest of the group.
Before my original post I had found an O P Bakke as an independent 20 year old man in Goodhue county, MN in the 1875 Minnesota census. Searching for the Skarmoes, I found them as a couple in the 1880 US census. They are listed as Halver and Mary P Skarmoe living in Goodhue county, MN. I was unable to identify the other couple or daughter Anne. The information that I do have suggests that Ole and his aunt and uncle immigrated to Goodhue county, MN and that he grew up there. I will be in contact with the GC Historical Society and ask for their help. |
Eric M Hanson |
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Are Olia and Ole sister and brother?
