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Joel_T
Starting member
Australia
5 Posts |
 Posted - 09/01/2017 : 06:23:22
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Hi there, I'm completely new to this site but keen to find out about my Norwegian ancestors. My grandfather's grandfather was born in Christiansund in 1866. Oral family history is that he left home at 12 for a life on the sea. During this life on the sea he made his way to Melbourne, Australia where he met and married my great-great grandmother. I have a copy of this marriage certificate which gives some basic information.
An interesting twist is that he anglicised his name to Peter Holton (known also through oral family history), which is what appears on his gravestone and on his marriage certificate. He listed his father and mother as Peder Halten and Ingeborg Halten, respectively, and gave his birthplace as Christiansund. He must not have known his mother's maiden name as it is listed as unknown.
I have been able to find some limited information on the Norwegian Digital Archives but as much of the information is handwritten and scanned I am unable to decipher much from these records. I can see that there is a Peder Halten married to an Ingeborg (or Engbor) listed in both the 1865 and 1875 censuses. On one he is listed as Peder H. Halten and on the other Hans Peder Halten. I am not sure if these are the same person, if they are this would most likely be my great-great-great grandfather.
Because I am not certain, and because of the patronymic system, I've hit a bit of a roadblock. Any information or assistance anyone is able to provide would be greatly appreciated. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2017 : 12:13:47
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Different info in the censuses regarding Peder Ingvald Haltens mother Ingeborg Halten (born Olsdatter). She is said to have been born in Kristiansund, Sundal and Hoaas. Birthdates are given as 1837, 14.08.1840 and 1842.
Since Hoaas is a farm in Sundal, I believe she is the one born "out of wedlock" Dec 8 1836, see #16.
Her mother is Helge Olsdatter and her father is Ole Johannesen, Hoaas. |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 09/01/2017 12:15:02 |
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Joel_T
Starting member
Australia
5 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2017 : 13:11:43
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Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.
It seems that the censuses are somewhat variable as to the information they contain, but you have confirmed that the family did at one stage reside in Oslo (Kristiania). This was also speculatively known through oral family history.
As the names are recorded variably, where do you suggest that I should look next? I'm not able to read Norwegian, and I'm not convinced that I completely understand the patronymic system.
I greatly appreciate your help.
Joel |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2017 : 15:04:58
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In most cases Norwegians practiced a patronymic naming system, that is, until 1923 when the law was enacted to require an inheritable surname.
The classic name has 3 parts: the first or given name, the patronymic which derives from the father's given name with son or daughter added to it depending on the sex of the child, the farm name essentially an address.
Some families began practicing an inheritable surname before the 1923 law and it appears that yours is one of those, although Peder Ingvald is recorded as "Hansen" in the 1875 census after his father Peder Hans or Hans Peder. Some confusion happens when a person has a double first name like Hans Peder with either of the names being used as the patronymic and sometimes both the names being used as the patronymic.
Halten is itself the name of a farm.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 10/01/2017 15:46:00 |
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Joel_T
Starting member
Australia
5 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2017 : 03:37:35
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Well that could be your Peder Ingvald Hatlen in Bud. What I found was his confirmation record in those awfully burned Kristiansund records. It would be worth your while to look at the original of this baptism. But of course in the one census record there for him he is listed as having been born in Kristiansund, as was his father.
I think this link takes you to the first page of the 1866 baptisms in Bud:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/2280/79
It's not hard and there is no absolute necessity to be able to perfectly understand Norwegian. (Also click on the full record for this listing at familysearch as they may have recorded the book and page of the entry)
There are several online sites that help with the printed headings at the top of the page. Here is a very good one with several topics that are pertinent to your situation:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~norway/follesdal.htm
Basically the record is created to inform that a child has been baptized. Since the child is in no condition to recall the facts of their baptism, the record also records the parents' names, likely occupation, where they reside and the name of the godparents or witnesses to the baptism. The witnesses are kind of good to know since there are often relatives among them. |
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Joel_T
Starting member
Australia
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2017 : 08:00:24
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The familysearch record lists the entry as bk. 4 p. 14.
I'm not quite sure how that relates to the scanned copy though. Also I don't know what the columns are supposed to refer to. |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2017 : 13:42:32
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Actually the birth is recorded on page 14 on this page that I am unable to decipher completely. Perhaps the same was true for the volunteer indexer trying to create that FamilySearch database entry. Humans do make mistakes...
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060523030250
The indexed birth record from FamilySearch comes from FHL microfilm 1,693,739. Their catalog shows that records from Bud AND Kristiansund were on that film. Item 4 was from Kristiansund and the birth was listed on page 14 of Item 4. I'm guessing that the earlier Items were records from Bud. |
Edited by - Hopkins on 10/01/2017 14:16:38 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2017 : 15:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins
Actually the birth is recorded on page 14 on this page that I am unable to decipher completely. Perhaps the same was true for the volunteer indexer trying to create that FamilySearch database entry. Humans do make mistakes...
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060523030250
The indexed birth record from FamilySearch comes from FHL microfilm 1,693,739. Their catalog shows that records from Bud AND Kristiansund were on that film. Item 4 was from Kristiansund and the birth was listed on page 14 of Item 4. I'm guessing that the earlier Items were records from Bud.
I've seen this type of form before. It's something of a "retrieved" form from records whose original condition is problematic back in the day. It also says that the baptism is from Christiansund. What's missing is the faddernes. Perhaps it does say Halvorson in the original, maybe that badly burned original is available... |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2017 : 19:08:14
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Joel if you want to get your feet wet in Norwegian records, here's something easy that might hit a home run. If all goes well this link should take you to a list of annual indexes of a record called dødfallsprotokol. It's a short form estate record listing each person who has died within the year in Oslo, arranged alphabetically by surname. There are book and page references which are also searchable once you have them to find the actual record.
Dødfallsprotokol will often contain a list of all survivors of a person and sometimes their locations, sometimes their first names as well rather than just a numeric category.
Since Ingeborg Halten the mother lived in Oslo in 1910 its possible that she may have died in Oslo and might appear in the index and in the actual record. This record allows a search across the numerous parishes in Oslo with one browse per year. Sometime in the 1930s even though the records have been mounted a privacy issue comes into play and access to the records are denied for that concern. Likewise if your Peder died before his mum, it is unlikely he'd be mentioned either in the actual record.
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/sk/browse?counties%5B0%5D=03&start_year=&end_year=&text= |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 00:21:19
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Another record set that could be of value to you would be the sailor's rolls, since both Peder Ingvald and his father Hans Peder or Peder Hans were sailors.
The last More og Romsdal parish sailors rolls I looked for were actually held at the Trondheim archive. Here is the contact information for that division taken from the Digitalarkivvet site:
The Regional State Archives in Trondheim
Statsarkivet i Trondheim
Maskinistgata 1
N- 7042 Trondheim
NORWAY
Telephone: + 47 73 88 45 00
Telefax: +47 73 88 45 40
E-mail: post@arkivverket.no
I would drop an email and ask for the sjømanns rule for each of them. Give as much information about them as you know re biographical detail. Basically these records record when they came on the roll, which ships they sailed on in a chronological basis and where the ships went. It will also tell if they went "romt" or AWOL. In the case of Peder Ingvald, it would be very interesting to read if his last recorded voyage went "utlandet" outside of Norway.
Also Peder Ingvald's brother Ole Christian Halten was a sailor, too. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 11/01/2017 00:22:52 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 02:29:17
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quote:
I'm not sure of the accuracy of this link, but according to this site
https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=75&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22Peder%20Ingvald%22%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1864-1867~%20%2Brecord_country%3ANorway
Peder Ingvald's father has Halvorsen in his name. However because the birthplace is listed as Bud, I'm not sure that we're looking at the same person
In reference to your above find, it appears that this couple also had another child a daughter, named Elen Helena born in 1872. This person seems to match the Elen Helma Hansen found in the 1875 Norwegian Census. Link posted by Jackie above.
Here is the info from Ancestry.com but the same can be found in Family Search.
Elen Helena Brun Halten
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-192
Name: Elen Helena Brun Halten
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 16 jun 1872
Birth Place: Bud, More og Romsdal, Norway
Father: Hans Peder Halten
Mother: Ingeborg Olsdatter
FHL Film Number: 1693739
Reference ID: bk 4 p 137
Family Search information is here
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VW22-ZJL
Here is a copy of the 1875 Norwegian Census link provided by Jackie, see number 21 for Elen Helena
https://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01052326001130
The original record for her birth is at this link, see number 156
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060523030346 |
Edited by - AntonH on 11/01/2017 02:45:43 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 11/01/2017 : 03:44:09
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Here is a third child from the 1875 Census, also listed as Bud
Ole Christian Hans Pedersen
in the Norway, Select Baptisms, 1634-1927
Name: Ole Christian Hans Pedersen
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 21 sep 1868
Birth Place: Bud, More og Romsdal, Norway
Father: Hans Peder Halten
Mother: Ingeborg Olsdatter
FHL Film Number: 1693739
Reference ID: bk 4 p 35 |
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Topic |
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Peder Halten, born 1866 in Christiansund
