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bmcnallie
Medium member
USA
86 Posts |
 Posted - 29/01/2018 : 21:10:06
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Well now two differences. in the 1801 link I think it indicates that a Marte Michelsdatter age 65 is the mother of Henrik Andersen. Unless it means she is the mother of someone else on that page.
Also, in the baptism information above it states that the mother/father are Anders Henriksen/Berte Tommesdatter. These are not the Anders Danielsen/Helena Samuelsdatter parents. Then Henrik cannot be the brother in the line of the Veteläinen people. |
Barb |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2018 : 03:25:46
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You posted quote:
descended from Tommes Olsen Vermund who was born in 1667 at Vermundsjoen
Last week I thought it might be time to ask for some help from my contact at the University of North Dakota. He does some minor searching for me in the Norwegian sources called Bygdebøker. I would consider them as Farm History books. There are two volumes for Åsnes. I asked him to look for information on the two Daniel Andersen. He scanned about eight pages from Vol 1. I have only begun to look at them, they are densely written and will take some time to get through, but it does give me some hope that we will learn a lot. Here is a brief start.
He starts off with page 71 so I might have to go back and see if can start a little earlier. I will give you a rough translation but the original is of course in Norwegian. There are gaps and the explanation is not always complete so I might put in what I think he is saying from time to time.
"In the church book is Tommes Olsen Vermund (1667 - 1737)" The author then lists several people associated with Vermund and then starts with
Probably son Henrik Tommesen Vermund married in 1726 Berte Samuelsdatter Peistorpet and they had many children including
Anders Henriksen Vermund born 1742 and in 1769 married Mari Eriksdatter Peistorpet
Henrik Andersen Vermund was married to Ingeborg Karlsdatter Vermund and had children. (Would have to be the Henrik born in 1788)
Anders 1800, Marte 1804, Kristian 1807 and a daughter (name forgotten in the church book.)
It is going to take some effort to sort through the book, obtain some additional pages to fill in the blanks. If you want to post an email address here I will send you the scans that I have so far received.
Also if someone else would like to take a look at the scans in order to help me ensure that I am making a correct translation and interpretation of the family lines I would be most appreciative. If so just post an email and I will send you the scans. So far I have 8 pages and will probably ask for a few more.
This site email system no longer works for the email I have posted so I need to have an email from you so I can send the scans directly to you. |
Edited by - AntonH on 14/02/2018 03:10:56 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2018 : 04:16:53
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I have not identified a Peder Hendriksen yet, but I did find a reference to a person with that name . In the Geni.com tree there is a section on Daniel Tomassen Vetelainen, Tyskeberget. In the About section I found this section that I have translated for you.
Tyscheberget. Owners are Hans Storm in Christiania and Knud Sorchnæs in Grue parish. Here's just one use-listed as housekeeper's place. In total there are 5 people who are 12 years or older in Tyskeberget. Daniel Thomasen and wife Kari Andersdatter, as well as their son Hendrich. Furthermore, we find "Father Peder Hendrichsen and wife Abelo Thomasdatter." Here it can be added that Abelo (nia) Thomasdatter was the sister of Daniel Thomassen
In the tree he is idientfied as
Peder Henriksen Rauken (Rauken)
Gender: Male
Birth: circa 1695
Borrsjön, Gräsmark, Värmland, Sverige
Death: February 10, 1787 (88-96)
Rauken, Åsnes/Hof, Solør, Hedmark, Norge
Immediate Family:
Husband of Abbelona Tomasdotter Laaininen
Here is a link to that Geni.com page. Maybe it is the one you are looking for.
Geni.com
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Edited by - AntonH on 30/01/2018 04:34:07 |
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bmcnallie
Medium member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 30/01/2018 : 15:15:58
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Wow..Thank you for all your hard work.
First...my email is bmcnallie@hotmail.com
Then the Peder Henriksen you found may be a connection I need someplace but it is not the one I was hoping to find. I was hoping to find that Kristian henriksen may have had a brother named peder that could have been the father of our Thorstein Pedersen. Guess I was just hoping on that one.
I am now going to redo my cheat sheet.
Thanks again---couldn't do it without you.
Barb |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2018 : 04:10:57
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I assume that this is your Ole Gundersen in 1865
1865
FAG
#11
1865
#4
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Edited by - AntonH on 31/01/2018 16:49:06 |
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bmcnallie
Medium member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2018 : 16:00:07
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1. Yes...the 1865 link above is our Ole Gunderson
2. The FAG link is our Kristian Henriksen. I have been to this cemetery but did not find the grave...found other relatives...but not his. That is on my list of things to do.
3. #11--as much as I want to believe that that is the marriage of Ole's parents...not sure. Ole;s marriage document shows Person (Pedersen???) as father. But there have been mistakes made. However, something interesting on the #11 church document. Looks like there were 3 children from that family got married. May be connected to us.
4. #4--again not sure if that is our Ole. Have not seen that record before. Will look at it more closely.
Thanks.
Barb |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 31/01/2018 : 16:47:11
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I think that this is the couple Gunder Olsen and Karen Mortensdatter in the 1865 Census. Here she is called Karen Martinsdatter but close enough and the age is correct. They are also on the Berg farm which is the farm referenced in the marriage record.
That means that the marriage I posted can not be the marriage of the parents of your Ole Gundersen since we know that his mother Karen Mortensdatter is found in a separate 1865 Census.
Berg 1865 |
Edited by - AntonH on 31/01/2018 16:47:45 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 02/02/2018 : 17:05:15
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If Karen Mortensdatter was born abt 1821 as the 1865 Census indicates she should have been confirmed about 1835 or later . Looked from 1830 through 1840
Here is a list
#36
#45
#6
#5
Number 5 has the same parents as #6, farm is Magnerud for both 5 and 6. I think we can eliminate 5 and 6 as we found the surviving one of the two Karens from Magnerud farm in 1865 Census.
The number 36 is probably a child of this marriage
Name: Morten Knudsen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 29 apr 1820
Marriage Place: Hof,Hedmark,Norway
Spouse: Pernille Jonsd
FHL Film Number: 124288
#25
Farm is Bjørnbye
And this Karen is their child.
Name: Karen Mortensen
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 24 mai 1820 (24 May 1820)
Baptism Date: 4 jun 1820
Baptism Place: , Hof, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Morten Knudsen
Mother: Pernille Jensd
FHL Film Number: 124288
#39
Farm is Flissundet
Now Flisstrand is the farm where Kristian and Karen and stepson Ole were living in the 1865 Census. Maybe a good connection. Very likely the same farm.
Here is the link again to the 1865 Census.
1865
Now that is the same conclusions that Kåre and Einar came to in your 2012 post. That the parents of Karen Mortensdatter are Morten Knudsen and Pernille Jensdatter or Jonsdatter.
Here is a link to your topic from 2012
Link
And the record on the most likely candidate for Gunder Pedersen
1865 |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/02/2018 00:39:57 |
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bmcnallie
Medium member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2018 : 00:20:09
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Thanks for all your help. I feel like I am going in circles now! I hope that once I map all this out I may find a name that I can link to the people I originally asked about. Still after all these years I still have not found anything more about who is the father of Ole---did Karen marry or was it out of wedlock. Was hoping to find some new names. Oh well. I will let you know if I find any connections!
I do appreciate all your hard work.
Barb |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2018 : 00:51:53
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You look for information on Gunder Pedersen the father of Ole the same as for Karen. Here is a list of confirmations for Gunder Pedersen starting at 1830 and ending at 1840. Not a common name as there is only one.
#9
Parents look like Peder Olsen and Sigri Pedersdatter, Gunder is born abt 1818.
Here is the marriage of a Peder Olsen and Sigri Pedersdatter in 1823, that is a few years after the birth of Gunder but not impossible.
Farm is the familiar Trangsrud. Fathers are Ole Olsen and Peder Jensen.
#26
Looks like Peder Olsen and Sigri Pedersdatter had the son Gunder Pedersen before they were married. Farm names are Trangsrud and Mellum.
#58
Probably Sigri in 1801. Parents are Peder Jensen and Giertru Olsdatter
1801
Probably Peder Olsen on Trangsrud in 1801 Census. Parents are Ole Olsen and Johane Pedersdatter
1801
Going back to your 2012 post, Kåre came to this same conclusion as I just did as to the parents of Gunder Pedersen.
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Edited by - AntonH on 04/02/2018 03:07:19 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2018 : 18:00:33
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You posted
quote:
Well now two differences. in the 1801 link I think it indicates that a Marte Michelsdatter age 65 is the mother of Henrik Andersen. Unless it means she is the mother of someone else on that page.
I think there is an error here either in the original or in the transcription. Marte Michelsdatter is listed as hands moder ie his mother but that is probably not true. She is ingeborg Carlsdatter's mother and should be listed as hennes moder.
This is likely her baptism record from Ancestry.com. Father is Kal Kalsen or Karl Karlsen or Carl Carlsen in various versions and Marte Mikelsdatter or Michelsdatter.
Name: Ingebor Kal
[Ingebor Kalsen]
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 1 apr 1774
Baptism Place: Hof, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Kal Kalsen
Mother: Marte Mikelsd
FHL Film Number: 124288
See the first baptism record right hand page for Kal Kalsen Wermund ,Marte Mikaels and daughter Ingeborg
Link
Probably the marriage of Ingeborg Carlsdatter's parents
Name: Marthe Mikalsd
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 17 mar 1766
Marriage Place: Hof,Hedmark,Norway
Spouse: Carl Carlsen
FHL Film Number: 124288
First marriage left hand page
Link
Looking at the scans I sent you from the Åsnesboka you will find information on this family on page 72. Karl Larsen Vermund [1718-1786) was first married to Eli Mattisdater and secondly to Marie Kikkelsdatter. Among children no Ingeborg but a Marte 1774 could be an error. |
Edited by - AntonH on 04/02/2018 23:16:47 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 04/02/2018 : 23:59:38
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One mystery still remains . The parents of Henrich Andersen born April of 1770, out of wedlock parents are listed as Anders Henrichsen and Berte Tommesdatter. I can only find one Anders Henrichsen who fits in either the Digitalakivet records or the Åsnes bygdebok and he is the son of Henrick Tommesen Vemunden aand Berte Samuelsdtter Peistorpet. He was born in 1742 and married Mari Erikdsdatter Peistorpet in 1769. 3rd marriage left page. Farms are Vermunden and Peistorpet;. Jan 3, 1769.
Link 3
They had a child Kari in November of 1770 so it can not be just a confusion with Mari Eriksdatter actually being Berte Tommesdatter. t
First child for Anders and Mari named Berte Mar 24, 1869
Link
It could be that Anders Hendriksen had a child with both women, one his wife and one not his wife.
In the baptism record for Henrik the parents are listed as Anders Henriksen Peistorpet and Berte Tommesdatter Dalhøklingen
First record left page
Link
The baptism record for Kari is right hand page second baptism after Nov 4 date
Hard to read?
Right hand page second baptism after Nov 4
Link
He may have had a second child with Berte Tommesdatter, also out of wedlock, right hand page baptism 2
Link
Perhaps father of Berte could be Tommes Hendrichsen b 1721 and living on Dalhølingen in 1801.
1801
Disnorge
Discussion and detailed family line on Disnorge
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 06/02/2018 00:49:36 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2018 : 02:51:24
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Some records found on the potential parents of Berte Tommesdatter.
Tomme's Hendrichsen Wermund married Kari Pettersdatter (Mattisdatter?) Järpliden ? Sweden in 1751,
Tommes parents are Henrik and Berte
Kari's parents are Mattis and Marit
Left page middle and right page for marriage
Link
Tommes and Kari on Dalhøklingen in 1801 Census
1801
First child born, named Mari in May 8 , 1755 Left page (Should this be Berte by naming convention?)
Link
Henirch May 19, 1757 bottom left page
Link
Kari 16 Dec 1759 middle right page
Link
Mathias 25 Mar 1761 middle right hand page
Link
Hellene 17 Aug 1765 left page middle
Link
Kari 2 bap 5 Jun 1768 left page middle
Link
Eli 24 Mar 1771 left page middle
Link
Tommes 4 Apr 1773 left page
Link
Kari 3 bap 8 Aug 1779 second entry left page
Link
Erik 9 Jun 1782
Link
Some under Thommes some under Tommes,
A Kari Mathisdatter Vermund died in1777
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 08/02/2018 22:23:25 |
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bmcnallie
Medium member
USA
86 Posts |
Posted - 06/02/2018 : 17:19:15
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Thank you again for continuing to add information. I am certainly adding to my list of names!
Barb |
Barb |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 15/02/2018 : 00:56:25
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I think we have a solution to the history of your Hendrick Andersen. A email to the manager of the Geni asking how it was that a Hendrick Andersen in his tree had a birth year of 1771 and a death year of 1768 resulted in the explanation that this person was actually two different people jammed together. One who died young in 1768 and one who was baptized Dec 26, 1771. He corrected the tree and now I had the correct baptism record for your Hendrick Andersen. At about the same time I received a new set of scans of the Åsnes bygdebok and the family could be found in the Peistorpet section.A little extra work by my fellows here on reading the parish records and it all seems to now make sense.
Anders Hendriksen bap. Dec 26, 1771.
Parents are Anders Danielsen and Hellene Samuelsdtter Peristorpet
Anders Married Ingeborg Carlsdatter
Parents of Anders Hendriksen are
Anders Danielsen Veteläinen born abt 1729 Sweden
His Parents are Daniel Andersen Veteläinen and Eli Mathisdatter Lehmoinen
And Hellene Samuelsdatter Peistorpet bap. Oct 9, 1729
Her Parents are Samuel Samuelsen Peistorpet and Gjertrud Olsdatter Peistorpet
Here is what to look for in the latest set of scans.
On the bottom right of page 39 is Peistorpet and this family line.
A summary of what to look for here:
The brother of Marie Danielsdatter Gransjøen is Anders Danielsen Gransjøen who in 1749 married Helena Samuelsdatter Peistorpet
Son Henrik Andersen born 1771 (watch out for the first Henrik born 1768) and go to the top of page 41 where Henrik Andersen Peistorpet (wrong birth year here of 1760 but we know now that it is 1771} married Ingeborg Karlsdatter Vermund.
Further information is on page 41 about the ancestry of Helena Samuelsdatter Peristorpet. As follows
Samuel Henricksen (1659-1739)
His son was Samuel Samuelson Peristorpet and he married Gjertrud Olsdatter, they had many children one of them was Helena Samuelsdatter born 1729 and as stated above married Daniel Andersen Veteläinen from Sweden.
The baptism record for your Henrich Andersen, First Baptism record from bottom of the right hand page. Dec 26, 1771.
Parents are Anders Danielsen and Helea Samuelsdatter Peistorpet
Link
Marriage of Anders Danielsen Gransjøen and Hellene Samuelsdatter Peistorpet
Third entry down on left page 15 p Trin is Sept 14, 1749 for the engagement, marriage is further down the page on Oct 19, 1749
Link
Son Daniel was baptized
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 16/02/2018 04:45:46 |
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Anders Andersen and Elizabet Danielsdatter
