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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 20/04/2018 : 06:23:44
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Okay. I like the couple Johanne Haraldsdatter and Lars Larsen as Johanne is the name of the first daughter Ole Larsen and Mari Jonsdatter had, a small connection. Good to know her birthdate, so I'll look for her confirmation and for his as well.
In Ringerikske Slekter III on page 390, there appears to be a small connection between Trøgstad and Sønderengen. There is quite a lot of detail about Ole Jølsen and his children and those two generations have a part of Sønderengen as part of their holdings, first Ole, then he sold that part to his son Jens and daughter Inger Marie for 1000 rd. In 1811 Inger Marie and her husband Jan Christianson Haug sold their part of Sønderengen to her brother Jon. But of course Lars Larsen isn't mentioned here but this is about the time when he is mentioned as living on Sønderengen. So perhaps because of living there on Trøgstad, he was familiar with and worked for the people who did own Sønderengen and formed his connection with the place.
I don't know if it's a significant connection or not but Sønderengen was the home of my great grandfather and his parents in 1891. Lars Larsen would be my great grandfather's great grandfather.
Thanks for your help in this! I appreciate it much....
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2018 : 06:31:54
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Here is the list of baptism dates and parents that came from the search for first name Lars, fathers name Lars baptism dates 1745 plus/minus 10, location Buskerud Norderhov.
Fathers and mothers of Lars Larsen from ancestry.com list of Buskerud, Norderhaug.
bap Sep 3, 1741 Lars Oplaending and Eli Pedersdatter
bap July 9, 1747 Lars Joensen and Aase Larsdatter
bap April 16, 1752 Lars Schojen and Gune Schojen
bap Sep 22, 1754 Lars Halvorsen and Else Larsdatter
bap Oct 18, 1755 Lars Christophersen and Kari Larsdatter
Lars Schoijen would be of interest as that is the farm that Lars Larsen is on at the time of his engagment (as Schoje)
Ringerikske Slekter II under Skøien page 191 it says that a Knud Davidsen Lindrup had Skøien until about 1750. Part of a year later a new worker was at Skøien. In 1753, Lars Paulsen Skøien and Gunne Olsdatter sold Skøien to Engebret Eriksen Trottilsrud |
Edited by - jkmarler on 20/04/2018 06:38:45 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2018 : 03:14:45
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Here is another coincidence I ran into for a connection. In the marriage record for Lars Larsen he is called Lars Larsen Wegsteen and his wife is called Johanne Haraldsdatter Barru. (It looks like Barru but probably spelled Bure in the 1801 Census)
In most if not all the baptism records for Ole Jølsen, he seems to be called Ole Jølsen Gudsgaarden and his wife is called Marie Jonsdatter Barru.
In this example they are listed as Ole Jølsen and Marte Gudsgarden Barru. Date is March 16, 1785 and the child is Fridric Otte Album Olsen.
Link
Here are the rest of the children.
Jon Olsen Dec 13, 1773
Ole Jølsen Gusgaarden and Marte Jonsdatter Barru
Link
Jon Olsen Jan 17, 1775
Ole Jølsen Gusgarden and Marte Jonsdatter Barru.
Link
Twin Eric and Jens May 17, 1778
Ole Jølsen and Marte Jonsdatter Barru
Link
Fridric Otto Album May 6, 1781
Ole Jølsen Gusgaarden and Marte Jonsdatter Barru
Link
Fredric Olsen Dec 29, 1786
Ole Jølsen and Marte Jonsdatter Barru
Link
Ingebor Maria Marte Nov 28,1788
Ole Jølsen and Marte Jonsdatter Barru
Link
There are a lot of military titles in the list of fadder but no sign of Lars Larsen or Johanne Haraldsdatter |
Edited by - AntonH on 21/04/2018 03:54:02 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2018 : 14:08:33
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Here is the death of Johanne Haralsdatter age 50, in April 1798:
SAKO, Norderhov kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0006: Parish register (official) no. 6, 1789-1811, p. 180
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070313660421
She is listed as "Lars Sonderengen's hustru" |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 21/04/2018 : 15:52:35
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Nice find, seems that you have found at least three wives for Lars
Here is the census for Bure in 1801
1801
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Edited by - AntonH on 21/04/2018 16:40:44 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2018 : 00:00:10
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| I think we have. Thanks much. After your post of the baptism of a Lars Larsen in 1752, I went back through my notes and found that 3 years ago I was unable to find Lars Larsen in Norderhov and Hole records. So woo-hoo for your effort. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2018 : 09:52:56
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
quote:
Larsdatter amongst them, as Olea Larsdatter on one, and on another named Olia Larsdatter Vager.
Looking for this person, without much luck. However when i left open the birth date I did come across this one.
Name: Olia Larsen
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 13 sep 1812
Baptism Place: Norderhov,Buskerud,Norway
Father: Lars Larsen
Mother: Olia Fingardsdr
FHL Film Number: 124052
Looking at the original it is interesting because the father is Lars Larsen Somdalen of Wiger.
Second entry right page
Link
Likely the marriage
Name: Olia Fingarsdr
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 20 okt 1793 (20 Oct 1793)
Marriage Place: Norderhov,Buskerud,Norway
Spouse: Lars Larsen
FHL Film Number: 124052
Here is the family in 1801 Census. In the same list as the Lars Larsen of Somdalen that you posted above. Is there a connection to your Lars Larsen?
1801
Olia Larsdatter may be this person since she is marrying the "right" farm:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000002184564 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2018 : 23:34:14
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Here is some information on the Lars Larsen found on Somdalen in the 1801 Census born in 1752 and married to Kjersti Amundsdatter. I wonder if we can eliminate some of these many Lars Larsen from contention.
He was first married to Inger Halvorsdatter on Oct 8 1789. With her he had the three children listed in the 1801 Census as well as one who probably died young.
He used the name Lars Larsen Somdalseje as near as I can read it. She is called Ingeri Halvorsdatter Baru in one record. Here are the children
Christopher bap Jan 31, 1790, Right hand page middle
Link
Kari bap Jan 27, 1793
Christopher bap Mar 29, 1795
Link
Ragnil bap June 11, 1797
Here is the marriage record.
Name: Lars Larsen Braaten
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 8 okt 1789 (8 Oct 1789)
Marriage Place: Norderhov,Buskerud,Norway
Spouse: Inger Halvorsdr
FHL Film Number: 124052
Link
He is mentioned in this Forum discussion as well as others of the same name , in the third posting. Here is part of it
.2) Gift 8/10 1789 ved Hovedkirken og Haug: Lars Larsen Bråten og Ingrid Halvorsdtr. Rødningssand. De var på Somdalseiet i 1790. Ingrid Somdalseiet død 1798, 36 år. Lars Larsen 49 år var husmann på Somdalseie i 1801 og gift 2) med Kjersti Amundsdtr. Ikke funnet vielsen. - Var det han som tidligere var gift med Olaug Bjørnsdtr. og far til Lars døpt i 1772? I så fall må han ha vært gift for 3. gang i 1801.I 1801 nevnes ellers i noenlunde aktuell alder en Lars Larse
So probably the first wife of Lars Larsen on Somdalen.
Name: Ingebor Halvorsen
[Ingebor Rodningsanden]
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 1 jun 1760
Baptism Place: Norderhov,Buskerud,Norway
Father: Halvor Rodningsanden
Mother: Ragnild Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 124051
Need to find his baptism record if possible |
Edited by - AntonH on 24/04/2018 16:38:35 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2018 : 04:00:21
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So this tree on Geni.com gives a good look at the other three Lars Larsen's of various ages found on Somdalen.
This statement from the tree tells a lot. "Lars Larsen var den første i en serie etterkommere på søndre Somdalen med samme navn"
From Geni.com
Lars Larsen Somdalen b 1691 d 1763 husband of Anne Olsdatter
Lars Larsen Somdalen b 1729 d 1813 husband of Kjerstie Olsdatter and Eli Helgesdatter Somdalen
Lars Larson Somdalen b 1763 d 1834 husband of Olia Fingarsdatter Enger (Buttingsrud)
Lars Larsen Somdalen b 1798 |
Edited by - AntonH on 24/04/2018 04:29:52 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2018 : 16:55:44
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Here are the reasons that Lars Larsen is critical and why connections to Sønderengen are critical:
One of the possible birthyears for Lars Larsen is 1752 based on his age of 83 at death and there is a Lars Larsen born that year in Haug on Skøien (spelled Skojen) in Norderhov.
A Lars Larsen in Haug was married to a Johanne Haralsdatter from the farm Haug in Haug. In the engagement record for this couple Lars is identified as Lars Schoye. When a Johanne Haralsdatter dies in 1798 her husband is identified as Lars Sønderengen.
When Ole Larsen purchases part of Sundby from Lars Larsen Sonderengen in 1813, he is identified as "the son" of Lars Sonderengen multiple times in the document.
When Lars Larsen Sonderengen dies in 1835, his son Ole Larsen has predeceased him and the surviving children of Ole Larsen Sundbye and Mari Jonsdatter Sundbye are named as legatees or minors requiring of protection and support.
Land sale:
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/tl20071204600110
Estate record:
<http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-sk20090127410260.jpg>
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2018 : 17:46:14
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I will take your word for any information in the Land and Estate records. They are for me a tough read. My approach had been to see if we could eliminate some or all of the various Lars Larsen born around the 1750 year. I think the Geni.com tree eliminates all of them in the Somdalen 1801 census except for the Lars Larsen found on Somdalen in the 1801 Census born in 1752 and married to Kjersti Amundsdatter.
It is possible that he is this one from my list of five on page one. His father is using the farm name Somdalen.
bap Oct 18, 1755 Lars Christophersen and Kari Larsdatter
Probably Lars Christophersen Somdalen.
Link
Called Lars Chritsophersen Somdalen in marriage record.
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 25/04/2018 00:09:07 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2018 : 20:05:45
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Lars Larsen born between 1740 and 1790 living in Norderhov in 1801 census.
Lars Larsen (male) 1784* Nordrehoug: Hesselberg 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270000413
son of huusman Lars Ericsen and Mari Larsdatter
Lars Larsen (male) 1745* Mand Begges 2det ægteskab Huusmand
Nordrehoug: Trøgstad 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270000594
Your find. This wife is Kierste Olsdatter, Lars' 2nd and she has a child from a prior relationship named Lisbet Joensdatter age 12 (in 1801)
Lars Larsen (male) 1761* Mand Begges 1te ægteskab Huusmand
Nordrehoug: Follum 1801-02-01 1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270002519
A huusman and his wife is named Ragnild Olsdatter and no children appear to be living with them in 1801.
Lars Larsen (male) 1771* Mand Begges 1ste ægteskab Strandsidder og saugdreng Nordrehoug: Hønen 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
His wife is Kari Olsdatter and they have an 8 year old child named Maria Larsdatter.
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270003366
Lars Larsen (male) 1752* Mand 2det ægteskab Huusmand
Nordrehoug: Somdalen 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
He is married in his 2nd, to Kjerste Amundsdatter and they have 3 children: Kari 8, Christopher age 6, Ragnild age 3
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270006571
Lars Larsen (male) 1763*
Huusbonde Gift 1te gang Bonde og gaardbeboer
Nordrehoug: Somdalen 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270006571
He is married 1 time to Olia Fingarsdatter and they have three children Eli 4, Lars 3, Ragnil 1
Additionally on Somdalen is an older (outside the search boundaries) Lars Larsen who is aged 72 and has a 2nd wife named Kjerste Olsdatter age 46
So there are actually two Lars Larsen married to Kjerste (Kirsti) Olsdatter in 1801 census.
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2018 : 22:46:17
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Some information, hopefully of some value.
quote:
Your find. This wife is Kierste Olsdatter, Lars' 2nd and she has a child from a prior relationship named Lisbet Joensdatter age 12 (in 1801)
Name: Joen Jonsen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 15 okt 1769 (15 Oct 1769)
Marriage Place: Norderhov,Buskerud,Norway
Spouse: Kirsti Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 124051
Link |
Edited by - AntonH on 24/04/2018 22:50:53 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2018 : 22:55:48
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I have focused most of my efforts on these two Lars Larsen, mainly because the birth year fits what my assumption is about the birth of Ole Larsen.
Lars Larsen (male) 1745* Mand Begges 2det ægteskab Huusmand
Nordrehoug: Trøgstad 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270000594
Your find. This wife is Kierste Olsdatter, Lars' 2nd and she has a child from a prior relationship named Lisbet Joensdatter age 12 (in 1801)
Lars Larsen (male) 1752* Mand 2det ægteskab Huusmand
Nordrehoug: Somdalen 1801-02-01
1801 census for 0613P Norderhov
He is married in his 2nd, to Kjerste Amundsdatter and they have 3 children: Kari 8, Christopher age 6, Ragnild age 3
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01058270006571
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Edited by - AntonH on 25/04/2018 00:46:02 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 25/04/2018 : 06:04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by lyndal40
Some information, hopefully of some value.
quote:
Your find. This wife is Kierste Olsdatter, Lars' 2nd and she has a child from a prior relationship named Lisbet Joensdatter age 12 (in 1801)
Name: Joen Jonsen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 15 okt 1769 (15 Oct 1769)
Marriage Place: Norderhov,Buskerud,Norway
Spouse: Kirsti Olsdr
FHL Film Number: 124051
Link
Here is their engagement 2 April 1769, right page at Wiger church
SAKO, Norderhov kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0004: Parish register (official) no. 4, 1758-1774, p. 192
Quick link: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20070313650656
Jon Jonsen Haugerud and the widow Kirsti Olsdatter |
Edited by - jkmarler on 25/04/2018 07:09:55 |
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Is this interpreted correctly
