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BrianSmith
Starting member
New Zealand
11 Posts |
 Posted - 06/09/2019 : 07:15:35
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| ToreL: I'm wondering if the piece that you translated is in error (not your translation, but the original script). A Gullik Andersen married in Hvaler parish on 23 October 1812, but looking at the original church book, it doesn't look like he married a Guri Eriksdatter. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2019 : 08:08:36
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| Gullik married MargaretheJohannesdatter? |
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BrianSmith
Starting member
New Zealand
11 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2019 : 11:09:27
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| Hi jkmarler - Thanks for your interest. If you look at the long post above by ToreL, it says that Guri Erichsdatter married, first, Gullik Andersen, in 1812, but I can find no record of that. On the other hand - and possibly quite unrelated - a Gullik Andersen married a Magrete Andersdatter on 23-10-1812 and in the same place. Further down in ToerL's post, it says that Thorer Torkelsen and Guri Erichsdatter had a child, Halvor, born 1811. But that is inconsistent with Guri marrying Gullick in 1812 and marrying Thorer (presumably) after Gullick died (in 1816). There's an inconsistency somewhere, but I can't be sure where it is. Not speaking the language, I have difficult interpreting the Norwegian Archive data. Quite possibly, I've misinterpreted an entry in the original documents. If you can shed any light, I'd be most grateful |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2019 : 17:52:19
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This is the transcribed version of the record for Gullick Andersens marriage of October 1812. it is the only record that shows up in the Ancestry.com data base for 1812 plus/minus 10 years.
Gullik Andersen
in the Norway, Select Marriages, 1660-1926
Name: Gullik Andersen
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 23 okt 1812 (23 Oct 1812)
Marriage Place: Hvaler, Østfold, Norway
Spouse: Magrete Andersdatter
FHL Film Number: 125882
Reference ID: Book 4
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Edited by - AntonH on 06/09/2019 18:02:33 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/09/2019 : 18:12:53
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| Sorry, there was an error in my translation. I just corrected it. The bygdebook is very densly written, and I tried to expand the text to make it more readable, unfortunately introducing a mistake. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2019 : 02:08:48
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Seems as if there is likely an error in the parish record for the marriage of Gullik Andersen and Margarethe Johannesdatter. The only record I could find lists the bride's name as Magrete Andersdatter, however the only person named Margrethe in the 1801 Census that fits is Magrethe Johanesdatter age 19 and an unmarried servant girl.
Death Record for Gullik
Link
1801 .
Daughter Anne Marie Gulliksdatter was confirmed in 1830.
Link
Daughter Grethe Regine Gulliksdtr. confirmed in 1834
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Edited by - AntonH on 07/09/2019 02:17:38 |
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BrianSmith
Starting member
New Zealand
11 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2019 : 12:58:26
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| Thanks Tore and Lyndal. That clarifies and extends. Your help is much appreciated. |
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BrianSmith
Starting member
New Zealand
11 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2020 : 06:10:36
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Hi folks
I’ve come back to looking at this genealogy project after about a year away from it.
I’d really appreciate an opinion on the following, please:
I’m looking at three census records:
1875: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/rural-residence/bf01052023003188
1891: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/rural-residence/bf01052688000693
1900: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/apartment/lf01037045034396
The people of interest are Halvor Halvorsen, Marie Olsen, and Soren Halvorsen.
In 1875, Halvor and Marie Olsen (and Halvor’s mother) were living in Glemminge. Halvor’s birth year corresponds with other records. Marie was born in Rølanda S Sverige in 1835.
In 1900, the record has become more detailed. Halvor’s birth date is now given as 1846-18-10. His is a coal handler. Marie’s birth date is given as 1835-08-03. She has become Marie Halvorsen (but I can’t find any marriage record). She is now from “Tinvlag?? Rylandt” (which might be Rølanda). They have a son Søren Bernhard O. (Olsen?) Halvorsen, born Glenning Sm, 1882-05-19. And they now live in Kristiania. Halvor’s mother, Petrine Nilsen is no longer with them. If still alive she would have been 89 years old, but I can find no death record.
There seems little doubt that these two records relate to the same people (allowing for transcription errors).
In 1891, however, between the other two censii, Halvor’s birth date is given as 1850 (four years different from the other censii). He’s given as a Lækterfører og Rehder (barrister and ?). Marie’s birth date is now 1839 (also four years different from the other censii). Their birth places are the same as in the other censii. They are living in Glemmen municipality, Moss bailiwick. And they have a foster son, Søren Bernhart Halvorsen, born Glemmen, 1882.
My question is whether or not the people in the 1891 census are the same as in the other censii? Halvor and Marie’s birth dates are different. Halvor is a barrister in 1891, but a coal handler in 1900 (is that likely?). Soren’s birth dates are the same, but he is described as a foster son in 1891, whereas in 1900 he’s simple a (natural) son. The spelling of his name is slightly different.
It has been suggested to me that Soren was fostered or adopted because Marie would have been 45 years old at the time of Soren’s birth (quite old for childbirth). I can’t find any record of his birth.
Overall, I’m not sure how to interpret the above information. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Regards - Brian
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2020 : 01:04:05
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Assumptions seem reasonable. Here might be your guy Soren in death:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/387/pc00000001513069
Advokat is the usual Norwegian translation of lawyer and attorney.
Something else which might affect finding the right records, Petrine is listed as a dissenter in 1875. Means she not of the state Lutheran church but of some other denomination. In fact all three in the household are dissenters. In the 1891 census he is listed as Methodist.
Here is Soren's birth /baptism record #68:
SAO, Glemmen prestekontor Kirkebøker, F/Fa/L0011: Parish register (official) no. 11, 1878-1917, p. 80
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060511020217
Methodism is mentioned in the notes portion.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 12/07/2020 02:08:06 |
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BrianSmith
Starting member
New Zealand
11 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2020 : 10:50:50
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Hi jkmarler
Many thanks for your help. The extra information you've given me seems to confirm.
I do wonder, however, about Halvor's occupation. As a 19 year-old he was listed as a wood cutter, at 45 he's a barrister, then at 54 he's a coal handler. Could coal handler mean owning a business that distributes coal (and not just manually delivering sacks of coal)?
Also, as Soren is listed as a foster son in 1891, but simply as a son in 1900, does that mean that he was formally adopted some time between those two censii?
And, in 1875, Halvor's occupation is recorded as "stuer". Google doesn't translate that. Can you, please? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2020 : 11:52:53
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Re Halvor's occupation I'm not sure that what you think is barrister is correct, stuer I think means steward as on a ship. There are 75 or so people in the databases with that occupation. I think you would be better served with one of the Norwegian speakers on site to translate. I'll leave to them.
I've seen before that a foster child becomes adopted by the family, but its legality, I'm not sure the census listings reflect that. Since you have those exact birthdates you could input them and look for them in the 1910 census which does employ that kind of information. Perhaps there's some variation on their names that has allowed the main search to not find them. And maybe since they each have Swedish connections some of their actions go there? |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 13/07/2020 : 21:14:23
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Interesting developments, but from where I am I can only contribute with some translations:
Læktefører means barge skipper.
Stuert means steward while stuer means stower. |
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BrianSmith
Starting member
New Zealand
11 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2020 : 02:36:51
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| Many thanks. It appears that he operated a coal and firewood business in Oslo. I don't know where I got the idea of being a barrister from - a Google translation error perhaps. |
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Marriage record
