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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
 Posted - 18/08/2020 : 23:53:46
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Dear colleagues!
Would anyone know the amount of days it took to sail from New York to Stockholm on the Oscar II in 1916 (routing was NY-Kirkwall-Christiania-Stockholm)? How many hours was the train journeys between Stockholm and Haparanda in Sweden, and from Tornio in Finland to St. Petersburg in Russia?
Thank you. |
Steven Fisher |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2020 : 22:27:27
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Oscar II sailed between New York and Christiania (Oslo), with a stop in Kristiansand. It did not go to Stockholm.
In 1916, the trip New York - Christiania would normally take about 11 days, but due to the war, a stop in Kirkwall could cause a delay because of an inspection of passengers and goods.
Do you have a date of departure?
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2020 : 22:37:06
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Hello. You are correct, upon reviewing my notes, the journey on sea was from NYC to Christiania. He departed NYC on the S/S Oscar II on 28 September 1916. He mentioned that he stoped in Kirkwall for detailed inspections. Likely it was 2 days before he departed Kirkwall. He said the Frederick VIII was also in Kirkwall when he was there.
He wrote that he expected to be at sea for 14 days. He got off the Oscar II at Christiania and thereafter travelled by train.
From Christiania, he took the train to Stockholm, and then from Stockholm up to Haparanda/Tornio and from there to St. Petersburg (then called Petrograd). I wonder how many days it took on the train for that total route (Christiania-Stockholm-Haparanda-Tornio-St. Petersburg)
Thank you so much for your help!
Steven |
Steven Fisher |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2020 : 18:01:46
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The Kristiania-newspaper Middagsavisen reported on October 12th 1916 that the first American apples of the season (800 barrels of "Baldwin" apples) arrived that day ( or on the day that the notice was written) from New York with the steam ship Oscar II:
The ship probably arrived on the 11th in the evening, for this other newspaper notice from Aftenposten, also on October 12th, reports that five American athletes had arrived with Oscar II around 10 o'clock the previous evening
Ted Meredith, Joe Loomis, Fred Murray, Robert Simpson and Andrew Ward. According to the report, all were "typical American athletes, tall, elegant gentlemen bursting with energy and good spirits."
A two-days delay in Kirkwall is also mentioned.
The article also relates that the American athletes would be continuing to Stockholm in the evening. (Mentioned in case those "elegant gentlemen" are in fact your focus of interest...)
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Edited by - ToreL on 20/08/2020 21:20:33 |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2020 : 18:10:34
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Tore and Jwiborg, you are amazing! Thank you! This is superb historical research and provides me a factual reference. Those apples must have been delicious.
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Steven Fisher |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2020 : 21:29:14
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In 1916, the train from Oslo to Stockholm took about 16 hrs:
Dept. Oslo 4 pm, arrival Charlottenberg 8:35pm
Dept. Charlottenberg 9:15pm, arrival Laxå 1:48am
Dept. Laxå 2:05am, arrival Stockholm 7:57am
I'm not familiar with the swedish railways, but I would expect Stockholm - Haparanda would be a 2 day journey, or atleast 30 hrs. (Twice the distance of Oslo - Stockholm) |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2020 : 21:36:31
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| Indeed, therefore at least 3 days from Oslo to St. Petersburg using that train route I would imagine. Thank you! |
Steven Fisher |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2020 : 22:47:57
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In 1916, the train from Bergen via Oslo and Stockholm to Haparanda was the main route for travel between England and Russia.
Dept. Oslo 7:25am, arrival Krylbo 9:33pm (14 hrs)
Dept. Krylbo 10:17pm, arrival Haparanda 7:05am the second morning. (33 hrs)
Thus; Oslo-Haparanda was a 47 hr journey.
Haparanda - Petrograd was a 38 hr journey
Arrival Petrograd the third evening 10:50pm
(Third class passengers arrival Petrograd forth evening 11:55pm)
So railway from Oslo to Petrograd would take about 3 days and 13 hours.
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Edited by - jwiborg on 20/08/2020 23:26:31 |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2020 : 07:16:20
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Thank you so much. Your research is completely accurate as the subject of my research wrote that he arrived in Petrograd at about 10:30pm which correlates perfectly to the information you provided.
Dear Jan Peter Wiborg and Tore Langholm of Norway. If you would like me to thank you specifically in the notes of my upcoming book, for providing your excellent research, I am happy to do so. Please let me know if you would like me to do so. I will endeavor to send you copies of the book if and when it is published (likely by Spring 2021).
Steven Fisher |
Steven Fisher |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2020 : 07:20:27
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Yes, Tore, the five American track men athletes were indeed on the Oscar II, along with the subject of my research, as the newspaper clipping you provide states. A perfect match to my diary document which, for your further knowledge wrote:
"When our train pulled into the station it was met by a great crowd which murmured about the "Amerikan, the Amerikans". We puffed out a bit and thought "Well this is great stuff; probably a delegation of Sweden's prominent bankers come to meet us." But we only had to pull our chests in again as the crowd was not composed of bankers at all, but sporting and camera men come to meet the fine athletes who we for the moment had forgot were on the train.
The boys had to line up in front of the station and face the battery of pocket cameras, reporters – cameras, and moving pictures cameras. We jealous ones of small minded stood by and made would – be humorous comments on the operation in a somewhat successful attempt to make the boys smile. Joe Loomis did put on an expansive grin once. With the operation over our two groups split up, bade goodbye and good luck one to the other, and went our various ways, – they to a lodging provided by the athletic authorities and we to The Grand Hotel. " |
Steven Fisher |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2020 : 14:50:07
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It's always nice when sources agree. :)
I suppose we had already calculated that the scene above took place in a Stockholm railway station on the morning of October 13th, and here is confirmation in a telegram to Aftenposten, dated October 13th: (Printed in the newspaper the following day.)
The American and Norwegian athletes arrived in Stockholm this morning, and were received at the station by a committee, a row of athletes and numerous journalists.
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Edited by - ToreL on 21/08/2020 19:14:50 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2020 : 22:50:32
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Oscar II should have arrived Christiania on Monday Oct 9th, but the 2 day delay at Kirkwall caused the steamer to arrive Christiania 2 day late; on Wednesday Oct 11th.
Assuming he made the Haparanda direct train departure the next morning at 07:25am (Oct.12th), he would have arrived Petrograd 10:30pm on Sunday, Oct. 15. |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2020 : 23:24:06
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| Indeed, that is exactly what happened. He wrote in his diary that on the 15th that he arrived in Petrograd at about 10:30pm. The only difference I note in his diary compared to your fabulous information is that he wrote that he departed by train from Christiana at 6pm on Oct. 12th rather than the 4pm scheduled time your 8/20/2020 post indicated. |
Steven Fisher |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2020 : 23:39:06
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| Also, he had a wonderful short stopover in Stockholm, first enjoying a luxurious breakfast at the Grand Hotel there and afterwards, went to the Mälarbadet, the most famous indoor pool complex of its time (dismantled in 1918) on Norr Mälarstrand 12 |
Steven Fisher |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2020 : 04:09:19
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| Ah, one more question. In 1916, to transfer from Haparanda to Tornio in Finland, did one have to take a ferry across the river to make the train connection? Or take a tug boat? The diary mentions the luggage was placed on tug boats, and therefore I assume that passengers from Haparanda also took a tug boat to Tornio? |
Steven Fisher |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2020 : 11:55:29
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Two steamers crossed the river at 11am every morning. The journey took 10 mins. If you missed it, you had to wait 'til next day. Every passenger had to go through customs and full body search. Newspapers and other papers were confiscated. Together with the "normal" passenger traffic, there was a lot of russian disabled and insane soldiers returning from the war.
Steamers crossing the Torneå river.
Haparanda port during WW1. Torneå in the background
See more photos here. |
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The length of the transatlantic journey in days
