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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
 Posted - 22/08/2020 : 17:36:56
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Thank you so much, jwiborg! These are fabulous photos perfectly supporting the writing in the diary from October 1916:
"After a ride through country abrupt with rounded hills and rocky gorges, as if someone had spilled a huge market basket full of packages, we pulled in at Happaranda. This was the most god-forsaken looking place any of us had ever seen. Set away up on top of the globe close to the Arctic Circle where the sun shone weak from distance it was cold and bleak even at this time of year. The town consists of a few low, scattered, log buildings, some few more elaborate ones of clapboards and a brick hotel . The river bank is lined with ambling docks at which were huge barges piled high with thousands upon thousands of boxes sewn up in white cloth, presents in route to the soldiers. Across the river we could see Finland and the town of Tornio, the low rail road station and the stark white domed church. After a breakfast of rare old eggs and coffee at the hotel by the way one of the dirtiest places of its kind I've seen we returned to the station and had our baggage inspected. I forgot to mention that before we could get out of the station we were examined and had to walk through false doors and blind alleys in a system that would do justice to a Coney Island pit." The inspectors found nothing of interest on us or in our baggage and we were therefore passed for transmission to Tornio. Two little tug boats puffed up to the wharf and our baggage was loaded aboard. "
Exciting new question for you! Would you be able to find any historical photos from around 1916-17 showing the "brick hotel" in Haparanda the diarist describes? Surely there was only one hotel in Haparanda at the time, called the Stadtshotell, which actually opened in 1900 and still operates today (and by looking at its website, they have done a very nice job upgrading it!). According to the hotel's website, Lenin actually stayed in this hotel on April 15, 1917, on his secret journey to Petrograd.
Thank you! |
Steven Fisher |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2020 : 18:29:25
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Postcard from 1911
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2020 : 18:32:32
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| Thank you, Professor! An excellent photo and the hotel today looks as it did in this photo from 100 years ago. However, it doesn't seem the hotel "was one of the dirtiest places of its kind I've seen."" Very strange. |
Steven Fisher |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 16:43:49
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An article from the Norwegian newspaper Tidens Krav on Oct. 13th says that the 5 American Athlets arrived Christiana on the Oscar II "yesterday night", and that it was hard for them to find a hotel, but they managed to get accomodation at the Grand Hotel. After breakfast they went to the Stadium for excercise, and after dinner and some official visits, they took the train to Stockholm.
I think it's fair to say that "yesterday night" in this context means very early in the morning of the 11th (possibly between midnight and 3 am), and that they took the train to Stockholm in the afternoon (6 pm?) on the 11th.
Another article from Social-Demokraten (Oct. 14th) says that the 5 American Athlets arrived Stockholm "yesterday morning". The artical was written the day before the publishing, and I think we should understand it as "in the morning of Oct. 12th."
Could he have departed Christiania Oct. 11th? In order to reach Petrograd on the evening of the 15th, I think he must have left Stockholm on the 12th... But then again, you said he had 1 night in Stockholm also... |
Edited by - jwiborg on 23/08/2020 20:07:42 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 22:00:01
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Here's a problem for the conclusion that Loomis & co plus your protagonist arrived in Stockholm on the 12th: During the track and field competiition in Stcokholm, Aftenposten printed each day a "special telegram". Each telegram had a date in the heading, and appeared in the edition on the following day, The telegram printed on the 15th and dated the 14th reports that the competition started "today" and among other things that Loomis won the 100 meter finals. That did in fact happen on the fourteenth. (This link takes you to a picture of this event, and if you click on the picture you see the date.)
So the competition must have started on the fourteenth. Now when the earlier telegram, displayed in my previous post, announces that the athletes arrived in Stockholm "today" and that the competition would start "tomorrow", it is hard to see how the athletes could not have arrived on the thirteenth.
If this conflicts with the diary, we should keep in mind that the local calenders in Petrograd would have been of no help at the time, being more than a month off, so it wouldn't be too difficult to get the dates confused. |
Edited by - ToreL on 23/08/2020 22:15:28 |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 22:01:23
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I have separate sources that state that my diarist arrived in St. Petersburg the evening of October 15th, thus I believe Tore's newspaper articles support this. He arrived in Christiania on the evening of the 11th, writes that he spent the night there at a "one horse pension" and then on the 12th had breakfast at the Grand Hotel, then took a train on the 12th leaving at 6pm, arrived the next morning in Stockholm "at about eight" (the 13th). Left Stockholm later that evening around dinner time to go to Haparanda. Arrived in Haparanda (sometime on the 14th I would imagine) and had to wait about six hours for the train going to Petrograd to pull into the station there. He arrived at 10:30pm in the evening of the 15th in St. Petersburg. This makes sense?
By the way. Did the S/S Oscar II fly the flag (was registered in) of the neutral country of Denmark or was it of Sweden?
Thank you both!
Steven Fisher |
Steven Fisher |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 22:47:43
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| Somebody may be better informed than me, but here goes: Oscar II was operated by the Scandinavian America Line, which appears to have been Copenhagen-based according to this page. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 23:05:40
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The flag was indeed Danish.
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 23:13:45
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Yes, the competitons in Stockholm took indeed place on October 14th, 15th and 16th (Saturday - Monday).
I see now that the Oscar II arrived Christiania 10pm on the 11th, and that the train departed from Christiania in the afternoon of the 12th, and arrived Stockholm in the morning of Friday the 13th... |
Edited by - jwiborg on 23/08/2020 23:23:11 |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 23/08/2020 : 23:18:58
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| The best rendition of the Oscar II I have seen. Thank you, gentlemen! Our research is now successfully completed! |
Steven Fisher |
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Admin
Forum Admin
Norway
528 Posts |
Posted - 24/08/2020 : 10:04:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ToreL
Somebody may be better informed than me, but here goes: Oscar II was operated by the Scandinavian America Line, which appears to have been Copenhagen-based according to this page.
We here at Norway Heritage also have extensive info about the ship and company: http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=osca2 |
Webmaster.. |
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SFisher1916
Starting member
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - 17/12/2020 : 00:24:29
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Hello my friends! I have a new historic question. Two Vice Presidents (Mr. Samuel McRoberts and Mr. Charles Rich) of National City Bank sailed from New York to Bergen, Norway on either April 15 or April 22, 1916. A letter from Mr. Charles Rich was sent from Bergen on April 29. Therefore I assume he arrived on or about April 29th. In 1916, how long would a sea journey take from New York to Bergen? Leighton Rogers required 14 days to sail from New York to Christiania, thus would the journey to Bergen from NY take a similar amount of time?
Which vessel did they sail on from NY to Bergen?
On approximately May 6, they had a lunch with Norwegian Prime Minister Joan Ludwig Mowinckel, together with the Norwegian Minister of Foreign Affairs and Minister of Finance, Head of the Budget Committee Mr. Formand, as well as the U.S. Ambassador to Norway, Mr. Allen George Schmedeman and Gustav Henriksen of the Norwegian America Line when they were in Norway. I imagine such a meeting would have been held in Christiania and not Bergen? Can you find anything in the Norwegian press about this meeting?
Thank you so much for any help you can provide.
Best regards,
Steve |
Steven Fisher |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 17/12/2020 : 23:12:24
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Hmm, what exactly does your information say; that they met with the Prime minister or that they met with J L Mowinckel? Not the same person in 1916, I think. (List of Norwegian prime ministers.) Mowinckel was Speaker of the Parliament in 1916.
And I think the ambassador's name was Albert George Schmedeman.
I don't think there was any member of the parliament with the name Formand at the time; I suspect this rather refers to the person's position, that of being Head (Old Norwegian Formand) of the committee in question. It seems Wollert Konow had this position at the time. |
Edited by - ToreL on 17/12/2020 23:55:56 |
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ToreL
Advanced member
Norway
842 Posts |
Posted - 18/12/2020 : 00:05:42
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There is a notice in the Oslo newspaper Morgenbladet on May 6th 1916, about the two chiefs from National City Bank travelling through Oslo on their way to Petrograd. It says that Speaker of parliament Mowinckel "today" offered a lunch at Grand Hotel [in Oslo] for the two gentlemen, together with a list of people that seem to agree more or less with your information.
There is also some more about the Americans' mission in Russia. I could transcribe/translate it or make it available elsehow if this is of interest. |
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The length of the transatlantic journey in days
