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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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RENEE PIGEON
Starting member
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 12/03/2021 : 02:24:26
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[quote]Originally posted by jkmarler
Does konkubine mean the same in Norwegian as in English?
I checked with someone years ago on that who indicated it meant unmarried companion/partner. Interestingly, on the actual census form, "konkubine" is crossed out and "husholderske" (housekeeper) is written in.
And she is "pige" rather than "hustru" in the baptismal entries. But I need to research more to be sure she is the same Randine. She was always described to me as "a dance hall girl." :) |
Renee Pigeon |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2021 : 03:44:31
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#34 Randine Taraldsen
Sør-Trøndelag county, Lademoen in Trondheim, Parish register (official) no. 605A07 (1916-1938), Deceased and buried 1920, Page 148
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb10081112062154
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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RENEE PIGEON
Starting member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 12/03/2021 : 22:23:30
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| Wow, thanks for all your effort on this! I have been working through the records and have found some other info that adds to the emerging picture (which is interesting indeed), so I will post again later this afternoon. |
Renee Pigeon |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2021 : 00:45:13
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Apparently, Johannes Henry Emil went back to Johannesson when he began working in Britain. He participated in WWII and is listed as married to an Isabella and his father is incorrectly identified (even though it might be transcribed as it was in the original record on the sailor)
https://www.sjohistorie.no/en/sjofolk/410047/monstringer
Of the children from his first marriage, by 1920 at least two of them were in foster care, Reidun and Sverre. |
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RENEE PIGEON
Starting member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2021 : 02:21:10
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So to summarize a bit, Randine and Peter Mathias Johannessen/Johansen, who appear never to have married, had at least four children between 1885 and 1890:
Johan Henry Emil, b. 1885 in Selbu, ST (and there Randine is listed as a serving-girl, not a wife) Between 1885 and 1886, they moved to Vardo.
Petra Avilde, b. 1886 in Vardo, died 1887 (she is indexed as Petra Avilde Petersen):
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000004207159
Klara Marie Leonardo, b. 1888 in Vardo, died 1897; she was fostered at that point by a tailor named Johannes Fossum. Death from encephalitis and a spinal injury.
Albin, b. 1890 in Vardo
The three surviving children are shown living with Randine and Peter in the Vardo 1891 census, but Albin died in November 1891 (he is also indexed as Petersen; I suspect an old-fashioned priest unhappy with the newer naming practices).
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6796/260
So the only child of Peter Mathias and Randine to survive to adulthood was Johan Henry Emil.
My great-aunt Signe Elvira was born Feb. 4, 1893, so Randine and Mikal Taraldsen must have started their relationship sometime in 1892.
In 1895, according to FamilySearch, Peter Mathias married a Swedish widow, Eva Mathilde Norum nee Salomonsen (although I can’t find this marriage in the digital archive):
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7B4-91C
I also have not found a marriage record for Randine and Mikal, but the baptism records and the census do list them as married, unlike the records for Randine and Peter.
In the 1900 census, we have Randine and Mikal in one listing, and we have Peter and his new wife living with her children from her first marriage, and their children:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01037570000888
But notably not Johan Henry Emil, who is listed in the 1900 census as living both with Randine and Mikal Taraldsen, and as some kind of “foster son” to a fisherman named Peder Johansen, b. 1842 (when I first saw this in the records a few years back, I thought this was Peter Mathias, but he clearly isn’t—he dies in 1907). The census-taker must have been confused by this, thus the question marks in the record. I wonder if at the age of 15 in 1900 he was an apprentice of some kind to the fisherman.
Meanwhile, by this time the two daughters of Randine and Mikal are in Trondheim with their aunt, Tora Sollid.
My theory about why Johan adopted Taraldsen as his last name (at least, as you point out, until his service in WWII) is that he was the eldest and by 1900 the only surviving child of Randine and Peter; it seems likely Mikal at least informally adopted him. Perhaps the new wife of Peter was unwelcoming. And perhaps that is why Klara is fostered with the tailor before her death in 1897.
That leaves tracing Randine's birth record in Gudbrandsdalen, somewhere between 1861-ish and 1864. I had previously identified someone I thought fit, but a descendant let me know she was a different individual, but I will tackle that again.
Thanks again for all your help!
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Renee Pigeon |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 13/03/2021 : 04:08:27
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Here is what the catalog of Familysearch says about the film of the Vardo records which include Peter's marriage:
"Contains parish registers from Vardø parish with Makkaur chapel which was discontinued in 1808. Vardø became an annex to Vadsø clerical district in 1819, but became its own clerical district again in 1849." |
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RENEE PIGEON
Starting member
USA
16 Posts |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2021 : 16:45:26
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A concubinate is a term for unmarried cohabitation, and was illegal in Norway from 1902 to 1972. A concubine (Norw:konkubine) is a woman who lives in a concubinate.
Regarding Randine Taraldsen:
Johannes Henry Emil's chr record says: Randi Hansdr af Kornstad sogn - Qvernes. "Parents residence" reads Haarstad
Albin's chr record says: Randi Hansdr Havskjær
Petra Avilde's chr record says: Randine Hansdr Havskjær
Havskjær (Hafskjær,Hafsgjerd) is a place in Kornstad sub-parish, Kvernes parish, Møre & Romsdal. Today in Averøy municipality.
Haarstad is a farm in Selbu.
This must be Randi Hansdatter in census-1865. She is listed as fosterchild, born 1862 in Vaage.
So Randine should be born in Gudbrandsdalen, somewhere between 1861-ish and 1864. According to census-1910, it should be 1863-Feb-13.
Her fosterparents are Iver Pedersen & Guri Johnsdatter.
#18, Confirmation 20 Oct 1878 Randi Hansdatter.
Parents: Hans Jacobsen & Eli Andersdatter
Likely #34 here? Rannei.
Born 10-Feb-1862
Quite some distance between her locations.
Johannes Henry Emil's chr record says her parents residence is Haarstad. Maybe the family relocated from Hafsgjerd to Selbu....?
1. Randine Taraldsen aka Randi Hansdr
2. Johannes Henry Emil Tharaldsen
3. Reidun Marie Tharaldsen Ulriksen (1907-01-18 1996-01-11)
4. Anne-Lisbeth Ulriksen Nielsen, Stavern, married 1962 to sailor Finn Gammelgård Nielsen from Denmark.
5. Kurt Nielsen
There might be living familymembers here...
1982: 25 year Stavern class reunion. Anne-Lisbeth Ulriksen in white dress (red cross). |
Edited by - jwiborg on 14/03/2021 17:20:39 |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2021 : 17:33:43
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Normally there was a connection between the fosterparents and the real parents.
However, I can't see a connection between Iver Pedersen & Guri Johnsdatter in Kornstad and Hans Jacobsen & Eli Andersdatter in Vågå...
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2021 : 17:35:49
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Thanks for excellent research on the subtleties on Randi / Randine.
I notice on her baptism there are quite a few Andersens / Andersdatters some of whom are on Kleven this list:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/search/persons/advanced?from=&to=&m%5B%5D=0515&lastname=anders*&domicile=kleven
Thanks much!
Here is a sister of Randi named Kari:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000039152698
And a brother named Anders:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/255/pd00000039153241
And Randi's parents wedding:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/327/pv00000008977457
Randi's birth parents moving in to Kvernes in 1873 #2-5
Møre og Romsdal county, Kvernes, Eide, Kornstad, Bremsnes in Kvernes, Parish register (official) no. 568A12 /1 (1869-1884), In- and out-migrated 1873, Page 446
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20070323650305
Sister Barbara in 1875 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052349004234
Sister Barbra leaving Kvernes #11 for Christiansund:
Møre og Romsdal county, Kornstad in Kvernes, Parish register (official) no. 570A06 (1885-1900), Out-migrated 1888-1892, Page 157
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060821050578
Sister Barbara married in Christiansund:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000008548004
Barbara and husband in 1891 census:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01053030004268
Sister Barbara's son born:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000026045387
Barbara's son dies:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000004792204
Likely Barbara's death:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000004792408
Randi going to Vardo # 12 in 1887
Møre og Romsdal county, Kornstad in Kvernes, Parish register (official) no. 570A06 (1885-1900), Out-migrated 1885-1888, Page 156
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060821050577
Both Randi's parents alive in 1875 census (so why was she fostered?):
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01052349002626
Both Randi's parents alive in 1891 census in Tingvoll:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01053063001309
Randi's parents still alive in 1900 in Frei:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01037409000590
Her father probably dies 1904 in Kvernes
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000005175787
Hans is listed as fattiglem (poor man) has nothing to leave and is listed as married but no other potential heirs mentioned:
Møre og Romsdal county, Death register no. 37 (1903-1918), Death protocol page, Page 13
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk10101309094014
Her mother probably dies in 1910 in Kvernes:
https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/267/pg00000005176104
Widow Eli Sannes has nothing to leave behind and apparently no one to leave it to # 89 (age here given as 76):
Møre og Romsdal county, Death register no. 37 (1903-1918), Death protocol page, Page 73
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/sk10101309094074
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Edited by - jkmarler on 14/03/2021 20:12:55 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2021 : 19:07:29
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Randi going to Vardo # 12 in 1887
Møre og Romsdal county, Kornstad in Kvernes, Parish register (official) no. 570A06 (1885-1900), Out-migrated 1885-1888, Page 156
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060821050577
There are two attest dates attached to her leaving Kvernes record in pencil 24 Sep 88 and 14 May 92. In my experience, attests are usually asked for at times of moves and marriages. |
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2021 : 19:14:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Randi going to Vardo # 12 in 1887
Møre og Romsdal county, Kornstad in Kvernes, Parish register (official) no. 570A06 (1885-1900), Out-migrated 1885-1888, Page 156
Quick link: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20060821050577
There are two attest dates attached to her leaving Kvernes record in pencil 24 Sep 88 and 14 May 92. In my experience, attests are usually asked for at times of moves and marriages.
She received a Certificate from the Priest dated 25-Oct-1887, that she was not bound by any public marriage vows.
New certificate 24-Sep-1888
New certificate 14-May-1894
It must have been very important for her to have fresh proof that she was not engaged to anyone...  |
Edited by - jwiborg on 14/03/2021 19:28:59 |
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RENEE PIGEON
Starting member
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 14/03/2021 : 19:38:58
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[/quote]She received a Certificate from the Priest dated 25-Oct-1887, that she was not bound by any public marriage vows.
New certificate 24-Sep-1888
New certificate 14-May-1894
It must have been very important for her to have fresh proof that she was not engaged to anyone...
[/quote]
Signe Elvira was born 4-Feb-1893, so perhaps the 1894 certificate was to allow for a marriage to Mikal Taraldsen? Signe and Mary were not baptized until 1896, a year after Mary's birth, and they seem to be married and the children legitimate. Did post-birth marriage confer legitimacy on children born prior to the marriage?
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/6796/123 |
Renee Pigeon |
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