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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
 Posted - 05/05/2021 : 00:56:17
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Dear Jackie and other Listers!
Thank you very much, Jackie, for a great message! However, I find myself unable to open page #3 in that newspaper so I cannot read what it says about that Sivert Knutson from 1901...?
Thanks again!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2021 : 02:27:06
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Maybe this will work better?'
https://www.mnhs.org/newspapers/lccn/sn83025227/1901-04-25/ed-1/seq-3
Sorry, this Sivert is not the right one. He is most likely the son of the couple above him on the list who usually use the name Ramsfield and Sivert was born in 1890 long after events. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 05/05/2021 10:02:03 |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2021 : 15:26:36
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So one search I did at Ancestry was a canvass for exact dates of birth in the WW1 draft registration cards looking for Christian b 12 Mar 1876. There were something over 2000 with the birthdate 12 Mar 1876 but none named Christian. The closest and most interesting to find was a Martin O Braaten in Otter Tail County but as a matter Ancestry identified him as Martin Olafson Braaten so he was unlikely after that.
Likewise a search in SSDI for exact date of birth of Christian b 12 Mar 1876 found only one:
Name: Christian Svendsen
State of Issue: Oregon
Date of Birth: Sunday March 12, 1876
Date of Death: December 1963
Est. Age at Death: 87 years, 9 months
Of course the limitations of SSDI, the person had to live until at least 1935 to be able to register and SSDI itself is not the listing of every person who had applied and received an SS Number but those who did and for whom there was a death benefit paid out.
In the ELCA databases you may also search for exact dates of birth which I did in confirmations, marriages and deaths for any with the same birthdates & first names as each of the children and did not find any who fit the bill in the other three categories. (There are some issues with the individual information. Oftentimes an exact birthdate is not recorded in the other three categories.) It remains to be searched for the same dates without any first name to see if something shakes out but I'm not hopeful.
The daughter Johanne would be the first to appear in a confirmation record which could be searched manually--avoiding the search engine-- in the Portland area (4 Lutheran churches in Portland or Mayville as part of the base of ELCA ). But I suppose that church affiliation of any kind would be difficult if your mother was engaged in notorious activity.
Newspapers would be good but so far have only pointed out some faint possibilities. The property in Hillboro that Sever Knutson owned was in 1886 on a tax list owned to Sven Knutson and then the two mentions in 1887 & 1888 to Sever Knutson and then in 1889 to Sven Knutson. Sven Knutson was a merchant in Hillsboro and he didn't have a brother named Sever. But I am wondering if the Sever was a self perpetuating typo?
Hillsboro did in 1887 enact a strict ordinance forbidding houses of ill fame or for anyone to live in a house of ill fame. The town may have had a problem with them before to lead to the enactment of the ordinance but the newspaper didn't really seem to report them. (By contrast in the Grand Forks paper, there was a continuous litany of legal actions reported from 1882 and on. Fargo / Cass county had several prosecutions of madams and "inmates" from the 1870s and 1880s. So its likely that even the smaller towns had people engaged in the practice.)
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2021 : 00:26:25
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Dear Jackie and other Listers!
Thank you very much for another great message! It's indeed amazing what you all find...!
The Christian Svendsen whom you found, was born in Dodge Co., MN of Danish parents: https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/32712161:6742
Birth record: https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid=2550&h=1074879&indiv=try&o_vc=Record:OtherRecord&rhSource=6742
I have taken another look at the 1885 Portland census, and I noticed something we haven't thought about before, at least I haven't... All the three children are listed as «having attended school the past year»!
Then I have been in contact with the Traill County Recorder, and they seem to have the old deed records as well as the old school records! How about that?
I have also written to the Traill County Historical Society in case they might have some of these records, or maybe they have other interesting records...
So wish me luck! Or maybe you have still other suggestions?
Thanks again for your great assistance in this matter!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2021 : 02:21:22
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School records in North Dakota could be very good...
At certain points, they were required to do "school census" which usually recorded the student's birthdate and their father's name. Not sure what the nature of the records might be in the 1880s so hope that something will shake loose on the children. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/06/2021 : 20:36:31
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
And there is a Sivert Knutson in Cass County in the era:
Cass County District Court NO INFORMATION Sivert Knudson NO INFORMATION 1880 - 1880 Indictment 2-294 Obtaining money under false pretenses
And here he is in jail in 1880 census as Sebert Knudson:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MCV3-27R
And if the children changed their surname to Knudson, this death / notice obituary might be worth looking at, because of the birthdate:
Knudson Carl 1876 Fargo ND March-19-1897 1 FF & DR
Knudson Carl 1876 Fargo ND March-20-1897 5 FF & DR col. 2
Knudson Carl 1876 Fargo ND March-23-1897 1 FF & DR col. 4
And Carl Knudson also had an estate in Cass county:
Knudson, Carl H. 40-806 Died Mar. 19, 1897 Fargo, ND
A story about Carl Herbert Knudson was also published in the Record:
Knudson Carl Herbert 1876 1897 Record. Vol. 2, no. 10 (April 1897) F631.R43 [17]
Finally got to the newspaper on microfilm. It turns out this Carl Herbert Knudson was born on 31 Aug 1876 in Baraboo Wisconsin, the son of Mr & Mrs K Knudson, so not likely to be the target Carl. |
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loyane
Junior member
Germany
73 Posts |
Posted - 19/06/2021 : 11:30:28
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Dear Jackie and other Listers!
Thank you very much, Jackie, for your latest messages on this topic. This family sure hides well, but after all it is very strange how they really seem to «disappear» without leaving any trace behind!
Could it be that Mary took her kids and moved somewhere very far from Hillsboro, ND - maybe to the West coast?
Since school records in Traill Co., ND didn't yield any result, I really don't know where to go next...
Thanks again for any suggestions!
Very sincerely yours, |
Lars E. Oyane |
Edited by - loyane on 19/06/2021 11:31:19 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2021 : 16:53:52
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There is a new searchable database with images of North Dakota death certificates 1908-2007 at Ancestry. There is one woman with the exact birth date of Olina in the base. Here is her transcribed info:
Name: Joan Disney [Joan Timmer]
Gender: Female
Race: White
Age: 81
Birth Date: 2 Jun 1872
Birth Place: Minnesota
Death Date: 31 Aug 1953
Death Place: Williston, Williams, North Dakota, USA
Father:
Benedict Timmer
Mother:
Elizabeth Timmer
Spouse:
J. W. Disney
Certificate Number: 5074
Likely she is the daughter Johanna Margaret Timmer who was the youngest child in the family born in Minnesota bout 1873. From the various census listings find no designation of her as adopted or fostered. Benedict Timmer dies in 1893 and wills his entire estate to his wife Elizabeth and also appoints her executrix. When Elizabeth dies in 1904 she divides her estate amongst her children and gives daughters Anna and Johanna each $50, son Barnard gets $5, $50 each for the payment of her last expenses and for the saying of mass, and the balance to be divided equally between her son Joseph and her son-in-law Conrad Westkemper. The elder daughter Christina was married to Conrad Westkemper but she died before her mother in 1901. Johanna was married at that point to John W Disney.
So really Johanna was not treated in death differently than her other siblings, and it would seem unlikely that she was adopted since she was living with the family in the 1880 census. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 31/10/2021 : 17:09:12
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Another of the birthdate & place in the North Dakota death certificate database at Ancestry has this:
Name: Mrs Minnie B Hannah [Mrs Minnie B Gilmour]
Gender: Female
Race: White
Age: 51
Birth Date: 8 Jul 1873
Birth Place: Minnesota
Death Date: 15 Feb 1925
Death Place: Gra Forks, Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA
Father:
James Gilmour
Mother:
Margaret Gilmour
Spouse:
Married
Certificate Number: 1624
However a birth / christening record is also found online naming these same parents at Blue Earth Minnesota seems to eliminate her from further consideration.
Altogether, there are about 10 people with that exact birthdate but with other birthplaces and varying genders. |
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Mary Urness Gilbertson (1851) - Otter tail Co., MN
