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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2004 : 13:55:08
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We are looking for information on the wife of a relative of my husband's. Her name was Ovidia Bernhardine Clausen (7 April 1844-1915), and she was probably the daughter of a minister or government official, living in Bærum before her marriage. We presume that her father's name was Clausen, since the masculine form is used in regard to her, rather than the feminine patronym. However, some family members think that her father was Bernt Olsen (born 10 June 1814), and they therefore assume that her last name was Olsen. We are fairly certain that her mother was Anna Torgerson Holm, born 21 January 1810.
Ovidia married Kittel Kittelsen Helland (1822-1909) from Helland in Sand, Rogaland. He decided to become a minister, sold his farm to his sister, studied theology, and was sent to Wiota, Wisconsin. After some years he returned to Norway and served as minister at churches in Kongsvinger and Sola (Håland). The couple were married ca. 1867 and had nine children. We would appreciate any information about Ovidia's parents and family! |
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maeven
New on board
1 Posts |
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ninakarls
Senior member
Norway
232 Posts |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 08:13:38
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I too found the only Ovidia Bernhardine in the entire 1865 cencus, but I didn't put it here as I thought it was NOT the right one. I still think so - how could Schønnesen become Clausen (or Olsen)? And the mother isn't correct, either. And NOTE: the birthplace is wrong, too. So I think you should forget this Ovidia and her brother...
I found the mother and her husband Bernt Olsen (and probably the mother's father) in the 1865 cencus
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f60220.wc2&variabel=0&postnr=7729&fulle=true&spraak=n
but it's not to much help as there's no Ovidia there. If the mother is correct, Bernt Olsen could be her second (or third etc) husband - Bernt doesn't have to be Ovidia's father just because he's married to her mother. But where IS Ovidia in the 1865 cencus? Maybe she's hidden among the Ovidia's being servants at the time?
And, finally: her father could very well be a Claus/Klaus or even a Nicolaus (in various spellings) though she's called Clausen not Clausdatter. It was fairly common at this time to drop the -datter form and change it to -sen at this time.
Sorry I did not have much positive information, but hopefully I've saved you from a lot of work on (what I believe is) the wrong person...
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askeroi |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2004 : 11:26:35
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| Thanks to those who have replied to my posting! You are so kind to use your time and knowledge. However, it looks as if Ovidia is as elusive to the experts who are so kind as to answer questions like these as to the rest of us! Ovidia certainly did not immigrate to New Zealand, and as far as we know, she did not immigrate to the US before her marriage. Her name is a puzzle. She may, of course, have been in another country at the time of the 1865 census. But we have never heard anything to that effect. Her name is typical of those given to children of clergymen or officials of Danish or Northern German extraction, but whether this tells us anything is another question! |
Edited by - NancyC on 06/07/2004 13:03:49 |
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Brining
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
868 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 06:15:10
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On the LDS
OVIDIE BERN HARDINE BERNTSEN
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 28 JUL 1844 Asker, Akershus, Norway
Parents:
Father: BERNT OLSEN
Mother: ANNE OLSDR
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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.
There is also a Bernt Olson and and Anne Holm in the 1865 census Click Here But I don't know if it is the same one since no Ovidie is listed living with them but she could be living elsewhere
Carla |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2004 : 21:15:34
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Kittel Kittelsen Helland was reverend in Nissedal 1877-84 and in Håland 1884-96. He was born 29. sept. 1822 and died 3. dec. 1910
according to the database of immigrants from Stavanger at Digitalarkivet. He left for "Wiota Wis" in 1866. There's no sign of Ovidia in the same database.
So, I believe she left Norway BEFORE 31. dec. 1865 (the "cencus day") and that they met in the US. Probably they were married there, too - I've noticed that the first child is born in the US.
If the LDS information is correct, she was originally a "Berntsdatter", but, like so many others at that time she stuck to her father's patrymicon, Olsen. Where Clausen comes from I couldn't tell - it could of course be from a (short) first marriage at very young age - or it could a misunderstanding of Olsen in very bad handwriting (allmost) a century ago.
Unfortunately there's very few departures from so early - at least online. I could not find her, anyway...
But tahe a closer look at the reverends carier in the US and maybe you'll find the marriage there...
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askeroi |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2004 : 13:40:27
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| Thank you for the additional information. We may be getting somewhere now. My husband and I will be going to Wiota, WI next week, so we can check on the church records there. If Ovidia did immigrate to the US on her own and before marrying, this might explain the name Clausen or Olsen or both. In the 1860s it was not "common" in Norway for women to use the male patronym instead of the female one. On the contrary, the use of -dotter/-datter was well established until around 1900. The law was changed in 1923, requiring all persons to have a surname. This is why the famous former prime minister of Norway was named Einar Gerhardsen (son of Gerhard, which he was), but his politician son is named Rune Gerhardsen, instead of Rune Einarsen. However, those who immigrated to the US rarely used -dotter/-datter, and the use of the male form was also abandoned, the family often keeping the patronymic -sen/-son form they had when they immigrated. So all this probably means that we should try to find Ovidia among the emigrants from Norway and then try to figure out what happened to her name. |
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askeroi
Senior member
Norway
299 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2004 : 21:30:06
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You are of course right when you say the male patronymic was not common among women IN NORWAY in the 1860s, but please remember that the trend had started - first in the main cities then gradually spread throughout the country. I haven't counted what was most "common" but quite many women in Oslo was listed with male patronymic (or their husbands surname if married) in the 1865 cencus in Christiania.
The same impression I'm getting from the emmigrant lists from Christiania 1867-1869 (the first three years on Digitalarkivet).
It's not sure, but she may very well have been using the -sen-form even before travelling. Even more so as she's called Olsen (Clausen) not Berntsen. I'm just mentioning this to remind you to look for both forms. GOOD LUCK!!
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askeroi |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 10/07/2004 : 12:08:28
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| Thank you! We will look for Olsen, Clausen, Berntsen and even Helland when we go to Wiota! |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2009 : 22:41:17
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| I would like to follow up this thread, as Trond Austheim has recently transcribed the passenger list for the Argo, which sailed from Christiania for Hull on 10 May 1867. Thank you, thank you!!! Ovidia Bernhardine Olsen (Clausen was a misspelling) and her husband Kittel Kittelsen Helland are both listed as "NN Helland". We can identify them for certain because we know that the other persons in the party were Brønla Helland (listed as "Brunla?") and Anna Helland. (My husband, Olav Veka, is related to them and has sent in a list of information on these persons.) I would like some help in interpreting the information here, and I have a few questions: 1) After each name there is the remark "Stavanger-New York". But the ship sailed from Christiania to Hull. How should we interpret this? Where did they board? Ovidia and Kittel married in Asker on 1 May 1867. See link below, so we wonder if they boarded in Christiania (Oslo), or whether they might have gone to Stavanger or even Christiansand. 2) Assuming they went to Hull, can we now find out how they continued their voyage from Hull? They were apparently going to New York. 3) Ovidia is listed under "Udflyttede" from Asker the same day, destination America. We have searched church records for "Udflyttede" from Sand, Oslo and Stavanger without finding the other three. Any suggestions where we might look? We have also searched for all 4 of these people in the census for 1865. Cand. theol. Kittel Helland turns up in Oslo and Brønla as a maid in a family in Sand. But we have never been able to find either Ovidia Bernhardine or Anna. Thanks for any help on this! http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=123&uid=27131&urnread_imagesize=medium&hode=nei&ls=1 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 15:42:55
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Your link did not work, but here you go #8
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 29/01/2009 15:43:26 |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 15:43:15
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I suppose it would be helpful if I provide the information from the passenger list. The entire liste is here http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_list.asp?jo=126&ps=95544
The Argo is supposed to be going from Christiania-Christiansand-Hull, but "Stavanger-New York" is listed beside the names. This is the source of confusion about the boarding place!
ID 95542648 NN Helland 44 Dep. 10 may 1867. Rev.. Stavanger - New York
ID 955422648 NN Helland 23 Dep. 10 may 1867. Ms.. Stavanger - New York
ID 955432648 Brunla ? Helland 36 Dep. 10 may 1867. Miss.. Stavanger - New York
ID 955442648 Anna Helland 20 Dep. 10 may 1867. Miss.. Stavanger - New York |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 15:46:31
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| Thanks for fixing the link, Einar! Hope someone can help with the interpretation of the list. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 15:51:19
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If you look at the other passengers you find
Ullensager - New York
Eidsvold - New York
Jevnaker - New York
you have to be right, the ship did not leave neither Stavanger, Ullensager, Eidsvold or Jevnaker - these places are most likely where the persons came from (were born). |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 29/01/2009 15:53:07 |
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NancyC
Medium member
Norway
198 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2009 : 16:00:05
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| That's the impression I got also. But none of them are from Stavanger, either. Three were born in Sand i Ryflyke, and the fourth one in Bærum. But Stavanger is the closest large town to Sand, and a place people had heard of, so maybe they "lied" to make it easier? I guess I can assume they were going to New York (then on to Wisconsin). |
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Ovidia Bernhardine Clausen
