| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2006 : 23:04:48
|
| I am trying to find information on my maternal grandparents, Conrad and Otilie (ROSENVINGE) ELLEFSEN. As I understand, they came to the United States for about 3 years and their daughter, my mother, Lillie (Lilly) Anna ELLEFSEN, according to my mother's Social Security Application, was born in New York, New York, on 18 September 1912. I guess, sometime after she was born, they returned to Norway as she was raised and married to her first husband there. I do not know her first husband's name or anything about him. I have no idea where in Norway they lived, but I do have an older half-sister (Elizabeth LIERFALL, married name, approx. 78 yrs-old) living in the Oslo area. I found one hit on a Passenger ship pay-site for a Lillie Anna ELLEFSEN, but was unable to find it checking other sites and I am unable to pay to access any of the Census records. My mother again came to the USA sometime prior to my birth in 1940 and went by the name of Lillian Elllefsen LANDOLT on her Social Security Application of March 8, 1941. Any help in locating any information on these folks would be gratefully appreciated. Louise Hansonmailto: |
|
|
dianefranco
Junior member
USA
37 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 04:41:15
|
These are what I found on Ancestry.com:
New York Passenger Lists Record:
Name: C Ellefsen
Arrival Date: 19 Apr 1886
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Age: 16
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Destination: United States of America
Place of Origin: Norway
Ship Name: Germanic
Port of Arrival: New York
Line: 17
Microfilm Serial: M237
Microfilm Roll: 493
List Number: 416
Port Arrival State: New York
Port Arrival Country: United States
1920 Census (Enumerated 15 Jan 1920)>New Jersey>Hudson County>Town of West Hoboken:
Ellefsen, Conrad, head, 57, immi 1881, naturalized 1896, Norway, Norway, Norway, carpenter, shipyard
Otile, wife, 57, immi 1889, naturalized 1896, Norway, Norway, Norway
Lilly, daughter, 7, New Jersey, Norway, Norway
|
 |
|
|
Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2006 : 18:03:30
|
Most public libraries now provide free access to Heritage Quest which has all the census' available online, at home. All you need is a library card.
If you live near a local Family History center, most of them will have access to Ancestry.com with all it's many, confusing databases.
More information on your mother's birth/death dates, etc. would help. Did her SS application state she was born in New York because the 1920 census info states she was born in New Jersey. |
Edited by - Jo Anne Sadler on 02/10/2006 18:04:02 |
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 01:00:29
|
Diane and Jo Anne,
WOW! Thank you both so very, very much for the information that you both posted. I was raised in a foster home from the age of seven, so most of the information I have has been hearsay and, I'm afraid, some has been imagination of my biological mother, Lilly Anna (Lillian), passed through my younger brother. In fact, I was only able to finally find a link to information on my biological fathe's family a couple of years ago and because of wonderful people like both of you, I've made some inroads in that area.
Lillian's birthplace on my birth cert is listed as just New York and on my brother's birth cert, her birthplace is listed as New York City, NY. Diane, according to the census info, Conrad immigrated in 1881 and would have been about 18 and would have been born abt. 1863, if my math is correct, so I'm not sure the passenger listing is the correct one. Also, it reads that Otile immigrated in 1889, so I wonder if there is a passenger listing for her, though I can't be certain of the maiden name of ROSENVINGE, listed on my mother's SSA.
Jo Anne, I do live not too far from a FHC, but their hours are frequently not compatible with my working hours. Thanks for the tip on Heritage Quest. I do hold a library card (have since I was 8 :) and hope our 20hr/week, poorly funded library has an online subscription. Again, I thank you both so much for the information. |
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 01:27:10
|
| Could somebody please check to see if Conrad, Otile, and Lilly are listed on the 1930 Census? It seems strange to me that, if Conrad and Otile were both naturalized, they would return to Norway. Louise |
|
|
|
Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 03:01:25
|
Well, work has a way of getting in the way of family research.
It was not that strange that they returned to Norway, they would have held dual citizenship and not all immigrants stayed permanently in the U.S. Then, as now, one has more benefits if one is a citizen of the U.S., certain jobs, property rights.
I could not locate them in the 1930 census but I found Lillie's passenger record:
Lillie Anna Ellefsen
Left Oslo, Norway on April 5, 1936
Arrived Port of New York on April 18, 1836 aboard the Stavangerfjord.
U.S. Citizen, born September 18, 1912 in New York, NY
Passport #7 - issued by the American Consulate General in Oslo, Norway on March 16, 1936.
Address in U.S., 514 Kenwood Place, Teaneck, NJ
It did not mention her class of travel.
If you live near Teaneck, you could research in city directories at a local library or maybe a Family History Center in that area.
There is alot of information and several good pictures of the Stavangerfjord on this site.
Unfortunately, the policy protocols for Oslo stop at 1930.
|
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2006 : 04:40:12
|
| Jo Anne-Thank you, thank you, thank you. You are really a blessing for me. Are there records of ships that have sailed from the USA to Norway or Europe? If so, that may be how I might find when they did return. If not, are there any suggestions as to how to go about finding out this information? |
|
|
|
Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2006 : 19:10:10
|
There have been postings on this site about return passenger lists to Norway but I have not been able to find them in the Search options. Not alot of info but some records available. Maybe someone else on the Forum could find the info.
You have Lillie's passport number, you can request a copy of her application under the Freedom of Information Act.
Edited from a recent posting on the Internet:
You can write to the U.S. Department of State's Office of Information Resources Management requesting a copy of her passport application under the Freedom of Information Act (5 USC 552). It takes about five months.
It would contain birth date, place and country of birth; current address; father’s name and country of birth; the countries planned to visit with the passport, the reason for visit; how long she was traveling for, the port she was sailing from, the name of the ship, the date she was departing; height, age, hair and eye color; his occupation; her signature; a signature and address for an identifying witness; and a copy of her photograph! There is space on the application for names of a spouse and children, with personal data.
If you find a passport number and date of issue, you can submit a request for a copy under the Freedom of Information Act (5 USC 552). You will need to provide credible evidence to indicate the person is deceased, in order to overcome the Privacy Act restrictions. You will also need to provide the following information: The passport applicant's name; passport number; year of birth; naturalization date; place of residence at the time of the application; approximate year of travel; and your name, mailing (postal) address, and telephone number.
Submit the request to:
Department of State
Office of Information Resources Management
515 22nd Street NW
Washington, D.C. 20522-6001
Conrad & Otilie were American citizens they must have gotten passports when they returned to Norway. Since you do not know the exact date it is a more involved process. Recommend you go to Cyndislist.com and research how to find old passport records.
Passport records would not contain travel information, only information available when they applied for the passport.
Since the half-sister in Norway was born around 1928 you can estimate that they went back before then.
|
|
|
|
hasto
Senior member
Norway
294 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2006 : 09:03:16
|
Conrad Emanuel Ellefsen was born 29. Oct. 1862 in Svelvik, Vestfold church record 1865 census
Konrad is a sailor, is married and they return to Amerika in 1892 Emigrants from Oslo
They are back in Svelvik in 1900, Konrad is a fraighter (sailor), no kids 1900 census Svelvik
Otilie was born 1862 in Oslo (Christiania).
Konrad returns to New York in 1901, now as a carpenter emigrants from Oslo
|
Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge |
|
|
|
Brining
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
868 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2006 : 04:48:24
|
Ellis Island has Otilie and Conrad traveling back and forth from Norway several times. In 1910 "Othilie" says she is going to her home in Hoboken NJ. The 1920 census has Conrad, Otilie and Lilly listed in 2-WD; WEST HOBOKEN It lists Lilly as born in New Jersey
Carla |
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2006 : 04:37:49
|
Jo Anne, hasto, and Brining,
Thank you so very much for the foregoing information. I have been off-line for about 3 weeks and am so sorry it has taken me so long to respond. Right now I'm using DSL and it is very slow to bring anything up on the net, but hope to get back to cable where I can access all the links you sent.
hasto, the "Christiana" that you have in parenthesis after Otilie's birthdate and place: I'm not sure whether that is part of her name of if it is where she was born, a town/suburb of Oslo perhaps? Also Svelvik, Vestfold? Is this near Oslo?
Elizabeth Lierfall, the half-sister, is my half-sister and my mother's (Lilly Anna) first child. She was probably born in or around Oslo, but not having her birth/maiden name, I wouldn't know where to begin looking. Her husband's name is Allan Lierfall and last I heard they lived in Barum, Oslo, Norway.
Again, I thank all of you for the information. It sure has begun to open some doors for me.
Louise
|
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2006 : 05:10:34
|
hasto, In looking back at Jo Anne's posting of 03/10/2006, regarding Lillie Anna's passenger record of 1936, I notice that she was using her maiden name of Ellefsen. Could it be that she did not marry in Norway and that my half-sister's birthname was Ellefsen? Was it common back then in Norway for a woman to take back her maiden name after a divorce or becoming a widow?
Louise |
|
|
|
Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 24/10/2006 : 07:14:09
|
| Well, since your Mother would have been about 16 when your half-sister was born and she left her, I kinda of think that she was not married to the father. |
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2006 : 07:32:21
|
Harald,
I was finally able to get into the websites that you posted for me. Now if I could only learn to read Norwegian in 24 hours or less. I was able to guess at some of the headings, especially in the censuses, but had some problem with the church record, especially with the handwriting. I could only get part of Conrad's parents' names. I also was unable to tell on what day he was baptised. Also, could you provide me with the name of the church. Any help that you could give me would be greatly appreciated. If it would be easier, you could email mail me at louise-hanson@sbcglobal.net. Thank you again very much for your help. Louise |
|
|
|
Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2006 : 15:49:00
|
There are helpful links for exactly those purposes listed under the 'Links' on this website.
You'll find census headings translated, church records column headings translated and a good sized list of basic translated words in this collection of articles -
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/articles.html
Another great website with a great list of words for easy translating from Norwegian -
http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm
The church in Svelvik, Vestfold lists the baptismal date on that line as 'do' for ditto - meaning the same as the date listed immediately above. (Clicking on that online image will enlarge it to full size.) The first word in for his father's listing is that man's occupation. (Try one of the lists of translated words available in the links above.)
|
|
|
|
Omei5
Starting member
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 27/10/2006 : 01:45:18
|
Hopkins,
Thank you for the advice and the links. They will be very helpful. One of my big problems is having trouble reading the written script. I was able to make out the "Marthe" and "Christiandatter?" in Conrad's mother's name, and the Selvig under her name, but for the life of me, I can't make out the word between her first and maiden name. Under the sponsors, I have Thelda Arnesen, (Laura ?) Nielsen, Otillie B. Ellefsen, and (Iver ?) Nielsen. I have no clue as to the words written under the name and the same for the words in the next column. Any help that you or anyone could give me in reading these words would be gratefully appreciated. An interesting observation-Conrad ended up marrying a woman named Otilie Rosenvinge; I wonder if the Otillie on the sponsor list is Conrad's grandmother, aunt, ? Louise |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Conrad & Otilie (ROSENVINGE) ELLEFSEN
