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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
 Posted - 09/11/2013 : 19:42:59
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| Thank-you Jackie. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2013 : 01:37:21
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quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Rose Malinda Joanna Tompson
Christening: 12 Jul 1905, St. Paul's, Ramsgate, Kent, England
Father's Name: Christine Tompson
Mother's Name: Maud Olivia Tompson
Jan Peter
Derek do you have the full complement of names of all the children? The typical naming custom in Norway (earlier in the 1800s, that is, not so much in later years) was to name the first children after their grandparents. It might be of interest if either of the boys have Daniel or Donald (but most especially Daniel)in their full extended name.
This is interesting since Kristian Elias Danielson Strømme's mother's name was Johanna/ Johanne which would be the Norwegian equivalent of Joann. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2013 : 06:36:35
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Yes Jackie we do have the full names of all the children:
The Boys' are straightforward, Thomas & Frank. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2013 : 06:49:52
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| Who were the godparents at their baptisms? |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 05:57:08
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That's a poser at present Jackie. I'm sure we may have the information somewhere...but where..?
Another entry inserted on to my increasing ' to do ' list..! |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
Edited by - jungfigh on 11/11/2013 05:58:58 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 06:58:59
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
That's a poser at present Jackie. I'm sure we may have the information somewhere...but where..?
Another entry inserted on to my increasing ' to do ' list..!
It's not hypercritical to have them. It's just to see if any Norwegians show up amongst them. They'll be at the church where the baptism occured, most likely. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 07:35:48
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Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....
Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.
On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.
This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.
Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 09:45:59
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quote:
Originally posted by jungfigh
Yes Jackie we do have the full names of all the children:
The Boys' are straightforward, Thomas & Frank.
Jackie, could be coincidence, but Maude's father was called Thomas and two of her five brothers were called Thomas (b 1890) and Francis (b 1899) - the latter shortened to Frank in the 1911 census.
One of Maude's sisters was called Rose, also replicated for one of Cristian & Maude's daughter's names. I'm sure Derek will be able to confirm none of the other children have obvious Norwegian forenames. |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 10:02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....
Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.
On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.
This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.
Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.
Jackie, I agree with you about Kristian. The mate who completed the census form has clearly legible handwriting - the ending of Kristian's family name as Strommen is consistent with the way he has written the endings of two other crew members - OS (Ordinary Seaman) Robson and Wilson. (and yes, AB does stand for Able Bodied, next rank after OS)
I also noticed the census form for Ole Pulers is on a return form for Scotland, although transcribed for Swanscombe, Kent. I guess there could be two explanations for this - either the person conducting the census had been undertaking this task in both England & Wales and in Scotland and simply ran out of forms or used the wrong one. Unlikely, since the returns were normally overseen by the local Customs Officers.
Or the census return form has been mis-filed when the returns were collated centrally - the records either side of it in the series are indeed for Swanscombe. If Scotland is correct, Ole was several hundred miles away from Kent. Note Ole is recorded as single, b ca 1875. |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 11:17:12
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quote:
Originally posted by David Yaw
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....
Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.
On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.
This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.
Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.
Jackie, I agree with you about Kristian. The mate who completed the census form has clearly legible handwriting - the ending of Kristian's family name as Strommen is consistent with the way he has written the endings of two other crew members - OS (Ordinary Seaman) Robson and Wilson. (and yes, AB does stand for Able Bodied, next rank after OS)
I also noticed the census form for Ole Pulers is on a return form for Scotland, although transcribed for Swanscombe, Kent. I guess there could be two explanations for this - either the person conducting the census had been undertaking this task in both England & Wales and in Scotland and simply ran out of forms or used the wrong one. Unlikely, since the returns were normally overseen by the local Customs Officers.
Or the census return form has been mis-filed when the returns were collated centrally - the records either side of it in the series are indeed for Swanscombe. If Scotland is correct, Ole was several hundred miles away from Kent. Note Ole is recorded as single, b ca 1875.
Jackie, I forgot to add, on Ancestry there is a link to Gravminner with a note of a burial record for Kristian Strommen in Drammen, Buskerud - but for some reason I cannot follow the link through. Could someone check this out please. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 13:22:54
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Yes the link to stones of the Gravminner database in Ancestry only comes to the main search engine in Gravminner. For some reason the links to Gravminner don't seem to last. But here is one of 18 Kristian Strømmen entries at Gravminner the one you mentioned as at Drammen:
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3749001
Name Kristian Strømmen
Birth date 1879
Died date 1957
Square CA
Row 06
Grave number 002
Obituary Guds Fred
Cemetery Skoger
County/Municipality Buskerud/Drammen
Registrations by Kirkevergen i Drammen
Transcriber Kirkevergen + Anne-Lise Skillinghaug
Registration finished Mars 2012
Notes
Photographer Liv Ofsdal
About the registration Kirkevergens database + gravminnene
Of the 4 Kristian Strømmen in the 1910 Norwegian census, there are 2 that are under 10 years of age b Aadalen (a location in Buskerud fylke), one born 1884 Hitra, and one born 1889. The Hitra fellow is a fisherman.
The reason for the interest in this fellow is a possible source of the name Tromm in England. I can't say with any certainty or liklihood that any of the Kristian Strømmen found in Norwegian census are the equivalent of the fellow in the 1901 English census.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 11/11/2013 14:02:15 |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 16:17:57
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Yes the link to stones of the Gravminner database in Ancestry only comes to the main search engine in Gravminner. For some reason the links to Gravminner don't seem to last. But here is one of 18 Kristian Strømmen entries at Gravminner the one you mentioned as at Drammen:
http://www.disnorge.no/gravminner/bilde.php?id=3749001
Name Kristian Strømmen
Birth date 1879
Died date 1957
Square CA
Row 06
Grave number 002
Obituary Guds Fred
Cemetery Skoger
County/Municipality Buskerud/Drammen
Registrations by Kirkevergen i Drammen
Transcriber Kirkevergen + Anne-Lise Skillinghaug
Registration finished Mars 2012
Notes
Photographer Liv Ofsdal
About the registration Kirkevergens database + gravminnene
Of the 4 Kristian Strømmen in the 1910 Norwegian census, there are 2 that are under 10 years of age b Aadalen (a location in Buskerud fylke), one born 1884 Hitra, and one born 1889. The Hitra fellow is a fisherman.
The reason for the interest in this fellow is a possible source of the name Tromm in England. I can't say with any certainty or liklihood that any of the Kristian Strømmen found in Norwegian census are the equivalent of the fellow in the 1901 English census.
Jackie, thanks for looking this up. In the 1901 UK census, Kristian Strommen's yob is given as 1883 - that's 4 years off the yob given in the burial record for Kristian Strommen in Drammen. OK, not totally conclusive, but perhaps an indicator they are probably NOT for the same man.
Hence the possibility remains that Kristian Strommen on board the Rapid in UK 1901 census metamorphosed into Cristian Tompson in UK 1911 census.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 16:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Rose Malinda Joanna Tompson
Christening: 12 Jul 1905, St. Paul's, Ramsgate, Kent, England
Father's Name: Christine Tompson
Mother's Name: Maud Olivia Tompson
Jan Peter
Derek do you have the full complement of names of all the children? The typical naming custom in Norway (earlier in the 1800s, that is, not so much in later years) was to name the first children after their grandparents. It might be of interest if either of the boys have Daniel or Donald (but most especially Daniel)in their full extended name.
Rose, not a common firstname in Norway.
1900 census Norway;
17 Rose, 152 Rosa, 22 Rosalia and 45 Rosalie, 12 Rosemine, 12 Rosine plus several varieties.
Kåre |
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David Yaw
Medium member
United Kingdom
128 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 16:38:39
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Strommen could be a last name or the name of a farm. Here are two Kristian Strøm and Kristian Strømmen. The Strømmen is a bit youngish to be a fellow marrying in 1903 unless there's an error in the birthyear in the census. The other is not living with parents but is a "pleie" a foster child.:
Kristian Strøm 1900 Norway b. 1884 Hammerø:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=7&filnamn=f01917&gardpostnr=338&personpostnr=2149&merk=2149#ovre
Kristian Strømmen b. 1889 Bokns Rogaland Norway in 1900:
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/WebCens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=34&filnamn=f01145&gardpostnr=127&personpostnr=680&merk=680#ovre
Birthyear not in error, #1 Sigvald Kristian:
Source information: Rogaland county, Bokn in Tysvær, Parish register (official) nr. A 7 (1878-1897), Birth and baptism records 1890, page 29.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=6362&idx_id=6362&uid=ny&idx_side=-32
Jackie, I spent some time today going back over the many links and suggestions on this now voluminous topic - but don't let me kid you I followed every single one.
But one that did catch my eye was your find for Kristian Strom in the above link to the Norwegian 1900 census as a foster-child, born Hammero in 1884.
Was he fostered because his parent(s) died, or maybe just couldn't afford to bring him up ??
I couldn't find a specific place called Hammero. I did search Digitalarkev baptisms for the years 1883-1885 for Ibestad where he was recorded with he Saugestad's in the 1900 census - alas without success. (They are still there in the 1910 census, but Kristian is absent).
Is Ibestad indeed the correct place where we would expect someone born in Hammero to be baptised ???
If we could find his baptism and parents, might give is a further clue to rule this candidate in or out. |
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jungfigh
Senior member
Malta
326 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2013 : 18:05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Was a death certificate ever issued on Cristian? It's hard to get one generally without remains but....
Do you have the d.c. of each of the children of Cristian & Maude? The modern d.c. in America have room for information about the parents' names and birth places, perhaps the modern British d.c. do also? The value of each of the children's is that it might show a transformation in the name or placename.
On Saturday I had a look at the original record of Kristian Strommen 1901 census listing and Ole Pulers in 1911.
This Kristian is one of only 5 or 6 crew, is given the status of AB which I think might mean "Able bodied" and the ship he was one was the Rapide of Shoreham. But the last name did look like Strommen rather than Stromme or Strommer.
Ole Pulers was indexed in Ancestry as M Pulers and the town is written in a fashion which to me looked like Wolden rather than Walden. The schedule at the top also said that it was taken in Scotland.
My wife has applied to the GRO for Cristian's death certificate Jackie. |
DL. ;o) Malta. G.C. |
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Christain Tromm
