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Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
 Posted - 28/06/2007 : 18:46:33
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A funeral is not a church sacrament and there is no legal or church requirement to record it in church records. Sometimes a minister would record it in his personal church notes. There were undoubtledly many funerals at the church but they were not recorded.
Only the original land owner would be recorded in government land records but the local county courthouses may have the records but that would not give parents names.
Checking with local historical societies, researching local newspapers, cemetery records, funeral home records all may lead to more information. |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 28/06/2007 : 19:45:59
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Thanks Jo Anne!
You gave me some hope. I hadn't thought of funeral home records. When the ALC files were archived, did the churches ever list cemetery records on them or would the current caretaker of the cemetery have those? The Lutheran church that is currently in Rosholt, never returned my call or letter about searching their records, so I went to the Wisconsin Historical Society to view the ALC microfilm. My grandfather, his son, would of made the funeral arrangements and he's also the one that gave very little info on Johannes's death certificate, but I'm getting desperate, so will look anywhere necessary. Getting Johannes's parent's names would be great, but I would settle for just learning where he was born. I've look through the 1865 Norwegian census every way I could possibly think of and I still can't find him.
Thanks again, Wanda |
Lislcat |
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Jo Anne Sadler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
1100 Posts |
Posted - 29/06/2007 : 01:34:18
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All the old Evangelical Lutheran Church records have been microfilmed by the ELCA:
http://www.elca.org/archives/#
Send them an email with as much information as you have and see if they have the records on microfilm rental and maybe they will have more information. NOW, it is expensive, the last time I did this it cost me $35. for a months rental, but I did find what I wanted. You can view it at a local library or Family History Center.
Small, local churches get alot of requests for information and they do not have the staff to handle such requests. Under-paid, under-staffed, their job is to minster to the living not to look up records on dead people. And alot of people expect them to do this for nothing. Anytime you do a request, also send a stamped, self-addressed envelope and the assurance that you will pay their appropriate fee.
As far as cemetery records, it depends whether the cemetery is still active. Many times the records have been turned over to a local Historical Society or the local municipality has taken it over. A lot of detective work. I have written to two cemeteries in New York (one Catholic & one Methodist) and after I sent them their fee for the list of Internment, they sent me a bill for the late maintainance fees ($8,000. & 5500.). Well, I just ignored it but don't say you are a relative when you do your request. Strange but true.
Some funeral homes stay in the family for generations, that is another resource. |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 29/06/2007 : 03:41:47
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Jo Anne,
The cemetery is still an active one. I've been lucky with the ALC microfilm, because the Wisconsin Historical Society has most of them, so I could view the records that were preserved, but I really needed some earlier info than they had or the info I needed just wasn't recorded.
I'll check with the church and find out who I need to talk to about the cemetery and burial. I believe I know which funeral home I need to contact, so will work on all of this after the 4th.
Thanks for your help. Sometimes I feel like I'm running in circles and getting no where fast. 
Take care, Wanda |
Lislcat |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2007 : 12:12:28
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Hi Wanda,
it seems to be hard to Find Johannes J. Berge.
You are right about Voss is not fare from Bergen in Hordaland County on the west coast of Norway, emmigrants from Voss was most likely leaving via Bergen.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~norway/hordaland.html
Since Vegårdshei in Aust Agder on the east coast also is mentioned.
Emigrants from this area would most likely use Kristiansand or Arendal as dep. port.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~norway/austagder.htm
Emigration records from Voss via Bergen, enter Database selector, select Hordaland all watch the emigration records online.
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=0128emig&spraak=e&metanr=1317
At lest you have his birt-record, June 8. 1854-55 and his christened name Johannes Jensen, after his father´s first name Jens.
He was likely born or grew up on a farm named Berge or one of his parents was from this farm.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 03/07/2007 13:03:04 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 09:06:50
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Hi Wanda,
I want to bring up this topic again for two reasons
1) To show you the birth records of Torbjørn Jonsen Hjartsjø born January 27, christened Jan. 31. 1708, top page:
Jon Hjartsiøs barn Torbjørn
Hjartsø is first time mentioned in 1593.
The origin of Hjart is coming from Hjort/Deer and sjø means lake "Deerlake"
Torbjørn Hjartsjø married 1733 Torgon Torbjørnsdatter Lonar, same page 3. column, 2. from bottom:
Mai 17, baptiz:Torbjørn Lonars barn Torgon født(born) Mai 12. 1708
Lonar is first time mentioned 1315
2) I wanted to bring up your great grandfather Johannes J. Berge, page one.
Perhaps someone might look into this topic again with "fresh eyes" and break through the brick wall.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 07/08/2007 14:03:33 |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 15:29:30
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Kåre,
I appreciate you bringing up Johannes Berge again. He will be found eventually. I am going to try and do some searching for his father, focusing on Jens and the farm name Berge. Maybe it will lead to somewhere?
As for Hjartsjø, I knew that it meant "Deerlake", but wasn't aware it went back that far. I first heard the name Hjartsjø when I was very little, but didn't understand it. My great grandmother's family, still used Hjartsjø after their name, years after they came to Wisconsin. I was always confused, because they also seemed to use Hjartdal, after their name, so I had thought it was the same word and they were just saying it differently. I was glad to find out that one was their farm and the other the town that they were from.
Lonar is even more interesting. It's hard for me to fathom, that it goes back to the 1300's! That is amazing!
I know that Hjartsjø is no longer in my family, but is Lonar?
I will find out more about Johannes Berge here in the states too! Once I have time to go to the historical society again, I can search through old newspapers and more church records. The county search for naturalization papers didn't turn up any information, so now I'm going to go through NARA records and see if they have anything.
Thanks for all your help!!!
Take care, Wanda |
Lislcat |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 18:03:41
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Kåre,
How did you manage to find that birth record for Torbjørn? That was really difficult to read. Thanks for finding that. I just love seeing those early records.
Take care, Wanda |
Lislcat |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 20:01:05
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Wanda,
I´ll take a look up in Hjartdalsoga in the near future on Statsarkivet to find more info. about Nordre (Northern) Lunar where Torgon was born. These books are resently updated and has a lot of info from all the farms in Hjartdal "Deervalley".
It was "easy" to find Jon Hjartsjø´s child Torbjørn when the author of Hjardalsoga had pointed out the year he was born, but I agree ,some of these records are hard to read.
You did find both Torbjørn and Torgon?
Here is the engagement record for Torbjørn and Torgon 1733, right page bottom:
Oct 22
Trolovet(engaged) Torbiørn Jonsen Hjartsjø med (with) Torgon Tor
biørnsdatter.
At the end it´s written. Copul 19 Nov.(Wedding Nov. 19.)
Engaged 1733
Take care, Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 07/08/2007 20:27:35 |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2007 : 22:36:05
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Kåre,
Yes, I saw both Torbjørn and Torgon, sorry I didn't mention both. Thank you for the engagement record! So her father was Torbjørn also, correct?
I've never heard the name Torgon before. It sounds like a very old name. Have you found out if we're related to any of the same people from Hjartdal, yet?
Have a great day/night!
Take care, Wanda |
Lislcat |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2007 : 09:09:07
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Hopefully you have had a plesent vacation Wanda.
Torgon is local for Torgun.
Lonar was earlier "Krongods", a part of the farm was owned by the king and the income was given to the kings Lendmann,the rest of the farm was "Bondegods", owned after "Odelsloven", a free farmers right of inheritance bacause many in this part of Telemark survived Svartedauen in 1350.
Torgon Torbjørnsdr Nord (Northern) Lonar was daughter of Torbjørn Olsen Lonar born about 1663, owner of Lonar from 1697 and Jøran Sørensdr born about 1680.
Jøran died April 30 1712, 26 days after her son Toreer was born. 2. section 1 column: 4 april Torbjørn Lonars barn (child) Toreer. 4.section same column: 30 april Torbjørn Lonars kvinde(wife) Jøran-32 aar gammel (age 32) Click here.
Nord Lonar was earlier named "Loftsgarden" after a very special Loft or Stabbur, English link down left, and was the largest farm in this area.
Torbjørn Olsen Lonar was son of Ole Torgeirsen Lonar, born about 1612, owner and user of Lonar about 1654 and Torgon Knutsdr Lonar born about 1626.
Ole Torgeirsen Lonar died in Sauland local parish in Hjartdal mai 8- 1700, age 88, 2. column 3 section:
8. Maji-Ole Torgeirsen Lonar -88 aar gammel Click here
Torgon Knutsdr Lonar died June 2.1698 in Sauland, age 70, top 4. column:
2. jun: Torgon Lonar KnudsDtr-70 aar gammel, Click here
Ole Torgeirsen Lonar was son of Torgeir Lonar mentioned 1640-41.
Tace care, Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 17/08/2007 09:56:42 |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2007 : 17:33:05
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Hello Kåre,
Yes, we had a wonderful week in San Francisco and wine country! Now I'm trying to get back into my normal routine.
Very impressive work you've done on Lonar! Does it start being in my family with Torbjørn Olsen Lonar in 1697?
I really enjoyed the history lesson on the Black Death. I studied that in college, so it's been awhile, but did recall that it started in the 1300's. To think that England lost 70 percent of it's population is just mind boggling.
Also, did you happen to find out if Lonar is still in my family? It would be amazing if it was, since that would mean that it would of been in my family for 300 years! Wow! I'll check the censuses and see if I can track them until the 1900 census.
Thanks for all your help!
Take care, Wanda |
Lislcat |
Edited by - Lislcat on 17/08/2007 17:34:06 |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 17/08/2007 : 22:18:38
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Kåre,
My family use to have a very wonderful Stabbur or grainary. The people that bought the house and land where it stood, tore it down and put in a new garage and storage shed. It doesn't quite look as nice. The grainary took up one side of the building and was raised off the ground and then a lean-to type shed was on the other side for the tractor. There was also a small loft upstairs. I loved the smell of the grainary.
Thanks again, Wanda |
Lislcat |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2007 : 16:54:00
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Hello.
Yes it always smell good inside a Stabbur. It had to be kept clean since it was a storehose for dif. kinds of food, clothes and fur. No paint, no tar, just solid, strong timber.
Your family from Lonar goes further back: Torgon Knudsdr.d. 1698 abowe is daughter of:
Knut Lonar mentioned on Lonar1640-61, born abut 1586 and unknown Andresdr likely from farm Kjelldalen in Tuddal because Knut about 1620 owned "Giftegods", the Brides wedding present , in Kjelldalen (Kjells walley).
Also Ragnild Johnsdr Hjartsjø´s younger brother Ole Johnsen born Mai 1. 1834 #11
emigrated to America in 1851, 2 section,#7 Ole Johnsen Hjartsjø 1rste Mai 1834
Ole Johnsen also partisipated in the Civil war as Ole Johnsen Jarshaw form Hjartdal Click here.
Unknown Ambos Jarshaw (born July 25. 1842) mentioned in the same doc. was Ambros Olsen Hjartsjølia, his parents Ole Olsen b. 1797 and Anne Olsdr b. 1806 and 10 children emigrated to Wisc. 1847
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 18/08/2007 17:27:21 |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2007 : 17:31:01
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Hi.
I had seen on the Hjartdal Historical Societies list of emigrants, that there was a Ole Johnsen listed as leaving in 1851. I was wondering why they had listed Ragnhild and her daughter as leaving in 1843, but not her husband, so had wondered if the Ole listed was a mistake, or a brother. There are a few Ole Johnson's that settled in the area near Ole and Ragnhild in Portage and Waupaca County in Wisconsin, so I'll have to check and see if one of them is her brother.
I'm reading through some of the work you sent me, before my vacation, so it may take me a day or so to get caught up. I'm still trying to figure out how the farm Uvås was in my family, but I'm sure I just have to read more.
Thanks again, Wanda
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Lislcat |
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Johannes Berge
