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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
 Posted - 13/04/2007 : 16:27:38
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What a wonderful source of information you fine people are! I have a feeling someone will find records to get me back on track with my research.
My first query is to find out if Hans HEM, b. 27 Apr 1849 was my grandfather's father OR his grandfather. My grandfather, Lars HEM. was born 28 Oct 1883 in Arendal, I believe. While visiting (now deceased) relatives in Norway over a decade ago, my parents came back with a collection of photographs of Hans Sigurdsen HEM b. 4 Feb 1811 and his wife Johanne Marie Einardatter b. 3 April 1818 and their 10 children:
Gudrun HEM b. 15 May 1838
Sigurd HEM b. 22 Sept 1840
Einar HEM b. 17 Feb. 1843
Sveinung H EM b. 22 July 1846
Hans HEM b. 27 Apr 1849
Ingeborg HEM b. 27 Sept 1851
Anne HEM b. 7 Jun 1856
Ole HEM b. 23 Jun 1854
Birgit HEM b. 29 Oct. 1858
Eilif HEM b. 12 Mar 1861
My mother made notes on that visit when this information was acquired that Hans HEM b. 27 Apr 1849 was my father, Sidney Vincent Hem's (1916-2003) GREAT grandfather. However, since Lars was born when that Hans was age 34, and is the youngest of three siblings, I suspect that Hans is actually Lars father... also, we have no other record of Lars' father's name if not that Hans.
We do not have Hans HEM's (b. 1849) wife, either.
My mother tells me that the HEMS owned a large bakery in Arendal, and that is where all these people came from. In fact, on the 1902 ship manifest where Lars first comes to Brooklyn NY, his occupation is listed as "baker", and origination in Arendal.
My second query is about the location of the HEM farm these people came from. I did make a note when talking with my dad in his later years that Hans HEM was Chief of Police and Fire Chief of Telemark district.
I have found a geneology line at Ancestry.com that has HEM names back to the 1200-1400's in "Sauherad, TM"... is that Telemark? Can I link my people to this ancient line?
My dad years ago had told me our family originally came from Fyn/Funen in Denmark, maybe 400 years ago. I would love to be able to pursue back to this branch if at all possible. Geneology is such a puzzle when I am so far from being able to go and research myself. I appreciate any help.
Ellie Hem Hjemmet
in the beautiful mountains of east Tennessee, USA
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2007 : 18:41:32
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The family of Hans Sigurdsen and Johanne Einarsdatter in the 1865 Norwegian census. They live in Sauherad, Telemark on a farm then listed as "Hemb".
http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1865&knr=0822&kenr=005&bnr=0027&lnr=000
Most of them are listed with birthplace of "Saude" - an earlier name for Sauherad district.
But you are still trying to link your baker Lars Hem to that family, you shouldn't make such a large "leap of faith" to do good genealogy. So start with the information about him, find the early and earlies records of his life... that will give parents' names and allow you to possibly make a positive link to the Sauherad, Telemark family.
Your Lars in the 1900 Norwegian census - lives with widowed mother and a couple of siblings -
\http://www.rhd.uit.no/folketellinger/ftliste_e.aspx?ft=1900&knr=0903&kenr=016&bnr=0021&lnr=02
Study the 'how-to' linksfor Norwegian research above, use the word translation website links, and if you are a real BEGINNER consult some good basic genealogy books at your public library and/or articles about the subject online.
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2007 : 20:20:50
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Thank you so much!
Now I have for Lars Hem, my grandrather:
1. A documented birthdate DIFFERENT from what the family had passed down
2. Lars' mother's name and birthyear, though I cannot read her maiden name from your next post with the Arkivveveket link.
3. An older brother, Hans Hansen Hem whom we didn't know existed!
4. Documentation of Lars' sister Hilma whom we know was an operatic singer (of particular interest to me as my dad was a great singer, and I am a folk musician/singer)
5. The information that Lars' father had died before Lars came to the US
6. The suggestion that Lars' sister, Esther, perhaps was already married as she is not listed in this household. Esther remained in Arendal we are told.
It is a daughter of Lars' sister, Esther ( whose last name we do not know) who provided the Hans Sigurdsen [Hem] photographs and dates as my dad's ancestors. It is interesting to read "Konstable Hans Hansen Hem" on the Arkivverket link you provided. So I believe your assistance has now taken us from "word-of-mouth" to some concrete records of this generation of ancestors.
And yes, I believe with these sources you have also confirmed that Hans Hansen Hem is my great-great-grandfather, not ggg-grand.
I am happy to continue educating myself as you suggest. I cannot thank you enough for this help.
Ellie Hem Hjemmet
quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins
A good number of the Arendal, Aust-Agder church records are scanned, online and available for you to use at the Digitalarkivet website -
The birth/baptismal record for Lars Hansen - born 28 Nov 1883 in Arendal, Aust-Agder, baptised 6 Jan 1884 -- parents clearly listed, AND their birthyears!!
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=776&idx_id=776&uid=ny&idx_side=-55
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2007 : 20:24:01
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As I mentioned above, I was not able to decipher Lars Hansen Hem's mother's information provided on the Arkiverket record... you are much more experienced at this, I wonder if you have a guess that might lead me to her name before marriage. Thanks again.
Ellie
quote:
Originally posted by Hopkins
A good number of the Arendal, Aust-Agder church records are scanned, online and available for you to use at the Digitalarkivet website -
The birth/baptismal record for Lars Hansen - born 28 Nov 1883 in Arendal, Aust-Agder, baptised 6 Jan 1884 -- parents clearly listed, AND their birthyears!!
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=776&idx_id=776&uid=ny&idx_side=-55
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jwiborg
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
4961 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2007 : 20:32:22
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Parents to Lars are constable (police officer) Hans Hansen Hem b.1849 & Anne Kristine Larsdatter b.1853.
Jan Peter |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 13/04/2007 : 22:08:16
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A big thanks to both of you! I have a lot of work to do now, making corrections on the tree and hunting back further for more ancestors, with some newly learned skills. My gratitude is immeasurable.
Ellie
quote:
Originally posted by jwiborg
Parents to Lars are constable (police officer) Hans Hansen Hem b.1849 & Anne Kristine Larsdatter b.1853.
Jan Peter
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 03:14:01
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A Norwegian woman did not change her name when she married - almost never a name change. (Keep studying - especially the articles about Norwegian naming patterns and systems).
The only 'unusual' record so far is when the family is calling themselves Hem but that was a record from 1900 and outside influences are changing the historical patterns.
The boy's father was Hans Hansen, his grandfather was probably Hans Sigurdsen, and his great-grandfather should be Sigurd something... they might call themselves Hem or Hemb while they live on that farm. It was also common for a Norwegian emigrant to use the name of the farm of their birth or where they had family history as a 'surname' in America, but of course not always done - otherwise how would so many of us be Olson, Hanson, Larson, etc etc. |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 05:40:34
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That's why I was so curious about the six generations of HEM-named individuals from the OneWorldTree site a friend copied off for me.
They are:
Hem, Borgar Agmundsson b. abt 1210 in Hem, Sauherad, TM
Hem, Vetrlide Borgarsson b. abt. 1250 in Hem, Sauherad, TM
Hem, Borgar Vetrlidesson b. abt. 1290 in Hem, Sauherad, TM
Hem, Orm Borgarsen b. abt. 1320 in Hem, Sauherad, TM
Hem, Solve Ormsen b. abt. 1359 in Hem, Sauherad, TM
Hem, Anund Solvesen b. abt 1410 in Hem, Sauherad, TM
Perhaps HEM here means just the location, a Hem farm in Sauherad. Of course this group is most likely related to each other, given the names. It will probably take me years to get any line of mine back to this time period, much less proved as connected.
I did note in one of two articles on naming I read earlier today, that not changing the last name was something the upper/merchant class might do. My mother is not very clear on my deceased dad's ancestry, but did tell me that while in Norway a decade ago dad's cousin reported that my dad's father, Lars HEM, was baptised or christened by a Bishop, and conveyed to my folks that was only done for people of royal lineage. I know how twisted facts get from word of mouth, so I am certain I will have to keep on digging to clarify/nulify that story. But as you also suggest, keeping the HEM name might signify SOMEthing (besides early adoption of new conventions.)
I haven't even yet found any information about the bakery in Arendal that was supposed to be owned by HEMs. My grandfather, Lars Hansen HEM, was a baker there, and met Anna KRISTIANSEN (whose rest of family adopted the name Krogenas (or some spelling variant) who was employed as a shopgirl there at the bakery. They married in Brooklyn NY in 1906. Interesting to me is that Anna KRISTIANSEN had one brother who was named Christian LARSEN, another brother took KROGENASS, and it seems all the sisters and their mother, Gina KROGENAS, used the KROGENAS name. (I've been trying to use ASCII characters to type the o with / in it... not working because I'm in Linux you thinK?)
Through the magic of the internet I am in touch with a second cousin in Arendal who reported that two of Anna K. HEM's sisters probably suffered seizures, one of those having had polio. We know Anna and her son, my dad, both became diagnosed with Grand Mal Epilepsy, and my son, age 21, has recently been diagnosed with a seizure disorder. I am far more intrigued by the genetic disposition to seizures than a "royal" lineage... I'm an old "whole- wheat -hippie"-type, living a very unmaterialistic --but wonderfully interesting-- life.
Thanks again for your interest in helping us "newbie" researchers.
Ellie
Originally posted by Hopkins:
The only 'unusual' record so far is when the family is calling themselves Hem but that was a record from 1900 and outside influences are changing the historical patterns.
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 06:42:43
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Hjelp...May I beg some more assistance? I think I might have found Hans Hansen HEM's birth, 26 Apr 1849 (the family record said he was born 27 Apr 1849--one day off). Here is the source:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=138&uid=187&urnread_imagesize=full&hode=nei&ls=1
The entry in question is line 58 at the very bottom. It is rather faded, and of course an oddly (to me) ornamented cursive hand. I am having a really hard time reading this. I think I can discern the father as Hans Sigurdsen and mother Johanne... if that's correct it is surely my great grandfather and his parents. Would someone kindly interpret the whole entry? |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 07:44:59
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Another Hjelp...
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?show=138&uid=187&urnread_imagesize=full&hode=nei&ls=1
Is the entry for February 11, 1811 my Hans Sigurdsen HEM's birth? ...and would some kindly soul interpret the entire entry for me. I can tell it's going to take a long time for me to be able to decipher this cursive style.
Once more, if this entry is my ancestor, the date of birth is NOT Feb. 4, 1811 which accompanied the family information from Norway. I am amazed at these discrepancies. Underscores the need for seeing original records.
Thanks again,
Ellie |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 15:31:29
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Ellie - Those links don't work --
Working direct links to the scanned images on the Digitalarkivet can be copied and pasted from the page from a display option available. At the top of the scanned image page is an option "Bildeinformasjon:" [Norwegian version]/"Image Information"[English version] which is by default set to "Ingen" [Norwegian version]/"None" [English version]. Change that and magic is available. Of the three options I like "Øverst" [Norwegian version]/"On top" [English version] because it puts the additional information across the top of the page and is usually easier for me to see. Copy either the permanent page link on the line "Permanent sidelenke:" [Norwegian version]/"Permanent pagelink" [English version] or the permanent image link "Permanent bildelenke:" [Norwegian version]/"Permanent imagelink" [English version] given. The page link will bring the user to the exact same webpage location, with all the choices for viewing at ratios from 20 to 150%. The permanent image will display only a jpg image file with slightly more limited zoom capabilities.
The first line "Kildeinformasjon:" [Norwegian version]/"Source information" [English version] is a really nice summary of the source of the information and is nice to have for making detailed source citations, footnotes, etc.
The baptism of Hans Hansen on 6 May 1849 -- the writing of the mother's patronymic is very faded or otherwise damaged. It MIGHT (emphasize MIGHT) read Einarsdatt. followed by the address of the couple 'Hem' and occupation/status 'Gaardmensfolk'. I'd recommend you check other records such as their marriage and/or baptisms of other children hoping for verification and clearer handwriting samples.
I would temporarily lean towards Einarsdatter mainly because of the similarity to one of the names of the witnesses on that record. But it's a hunch only!
(Oh for heavens sake - I have to add a later edit here. You already knew that her name was Einarsdatter!! Posting #1 in this thread - you say so!)
You will find a history of the Hem farm and a genealogy of at least many of its past residents in Sauherad, Telemark in the bygdebok -- "Bygdebok for Sauherad", 5 volumes by Birger Kirkeby?. The Hem farm is in volume 2 (starting page 588?) of that published set. I don't remember how reliable those Sauherad books were. I agree that careful checking against the best 'primary' records available is absolutely necessary for information from ANY secondary source. (Also a great part of the fun of the hobby...) |
Edited by - Hopkins on 14/04/2007 16:12:46 |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 17:52:39
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You have made my day! Several times over, in fact!!! You have educated me so much in just a 24 hour period... I was up til past 3 am looking through Digitalarkivet records. I may not be able to read everything, but I'm getting some good information and skills. What exquisite fun!!! It's a good thing I'm retired. I'm calling my mom in Massachusetts in a few minutes to share this adventure.
Thanks for the instructions on posting links. I printed that out for my reference file.
And thanks too for the source for Hem Farm information. I will write Cousin Marit if this source is not available online for researching.
Isn't this Digital Arkive in Norway quite a contrast to the pay-to-view through ancestry.com US sources. We should be able to search here for free too. Thank goodness generous people are willing to do lookups... and in this case, folks like you who will actually decipher difficult text.
One thing I went hunting for and did NOT turn up is a map showing where the Hem farm is. I know I came across a tool in another topic post, just read so much I couldn't get back there in my dazed state. Another day, another search.
You are a fine teacher. Mange tusen takk!!! (I remember my granddad saying that a lot... grabbed my teenie N/E dictionary!)
Ellie
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 22:34:46
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Hi Hjemmet, you are right,
Hans Hansen born April 26. 1849 on Hem in Saude/Sauherad by parents Hans Sigurdesen of Johanne Enersdater Hem.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7926&idx_id=7926&uid=ny&idx_side=-41
Johanne Enersdatter Hembs age 20 "født på Medheien i Sandsvær" born on Medheien in Sandsvær (Sandsvær municipality in Buskerud County) and Hans Sigurdsen Hem age 26, married March 29. 1838, couple nr 8
htp://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=5982&idx_id=5982&uid=ny&idx_side=-247
Hans Sigurdsen born on Sexegesima Sunday, Feb. 4. 1811, son of Sigurd Ellevsen Hem and Guro Hansdatter:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7924&idx_id=7924&uid=ny&idx_side=-185
Johanne (Marie) was born on Medheien march 28. 1818, bap. april 20 in Hedenstad church, daughter of Ener Johannesen Medheien and Ingeborg Thoresdatter/Olsdatter, child, girls right side nr 24
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1125&idx_id=1125&uid=ny&idx_side=-8
Ener was born about 1787.
The 1801 census show his 8 siblings and mother Berte-mari Enersdatter born about 1762 and father Johannes Ellefsen born a. 1748, farmer, but also working for the Silver Compay in Kongsberg as a "kong. vedhugger" royal wood-cutter
http://digitalarkivet.uib.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=f10629&gardpostnr=328&personpostnr=3550&merk=3550#ovre
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 15/04/2007 01:26:31 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 14/04/2007 : 23:38:32
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For the obtaining use of Norwegian bygdeboks:
- check LDS Family History Library catalog, see if available on microfiche or microfilm at a LDS Family History Center near you
- go to your public library and inquire about getting the book(s) by Inter-Library Loan
- check online for persons willing to do limited "lookups" in books they have
An old friend can explain better than I can --
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~norway/bygdebok.html
Make sure you have a GOOD Norwegian-English dictionary! (Einar Haugen has a good one that usually costs less than $30 US and is available through online bookstores). If you are lucky enough to find ancestors and/or an old "family farm" in a bygdebok you will have material that you'll have to translate.
The Digitalarkivet and other Norwegian websites are indeed a JOY! I love showing that every-growing website to people who are just starting the hobby.
Other subscription-based online websites such as Ancestry and HeritageQuest are often excellent too. I still consider that the cost of several such subscriptions is still a good value compared to the ways we used to have to do exactly such US document research. Another 'low-cost' resource is the many materials available through LDS Family History Centers.
This line of inquiry had tickled something in my memory for a couple days now and I finally checked. I had a couple of ancestors who also lived on the Hem farm in Sauherad. It doesn't appear to be a long term residence for them but that happened about 1650. Not all persons who lived/worked on that farm were related to each other -- it was a very old farm with a great deal of history.
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Edited by - Hopkins on 14/04/2007 23:49:30 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 15/04/2007 : 00:41:14
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About Borgar, Vetrlide, Orm and Solve mentioned above.
Hem lies on the Western side of lake Heddalsvannet in Sauherad municipality. It was for many years a "disagreement" going on between the people of Hem/Lindheim and the Haukvik people a bit further North at the lake.
These men was not ordinary farmers but the kings men from the lower nobilty, and an open struggle between nobilitis was not judged in an ordinary cort but after the same rules as in Hirdskråen, the law to the kings personal body guard.
The document from 1337 tells about a manslaughter on Hallvard Erlingsson as "Hirdmann"Torleif Saksabjørnsson Lindheim had to pay 2 merker gold in penalty and his brother Bjørn 4 merker in gold for a blow of an axe.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=1358&s=n&str=
Borgar Vetrlidesson, married to Aslaug Saksabjørnsdatter Lindheim was killed by the blow of an axe in Eftelørt in Sandsvær 1336 by Jon Sigurdsson http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=240&s=n&str=
Vetrlide Borgarsson was married to widow Cecilia Ivarsdatter Nes, daughter of Country Governour Ivar Ogmundsson Rova til Hestbø, Drottsete in Norway from 1339, 1. ranked in Norway if the king was abroad or too young to rule.
Ormar Borgarsson took over Hem after his father Borgar
Solve Ormsson Hem married to Margareta Bjørnsdatter Nes og Lindheim
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Edited by - Kåarto on 15/04/2007 00:59:21 |
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HEM relatives in Arendal, Telemark? & Denmark
