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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
 Posted - 26/06/2008 : 06:49:17
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Karoline Khristensen b. 11/23/1828, immigrated to the USA, on the Geiser, arriving New York on the 22nd of Aug 1884. She was traveling with her three children:
Regina b. June 6, 1867
Oscar b. March 22, 1874
Emil bd unknown, died at the age of 19, on November 27th, 1896 in Eidsvold, Clark County, Wisconsin.
Husband's name Karl Khristiansen, immigrated ahead of her, to earn money for the rest of the family to follow. Her son as informant on her death certificate, listed her father as Ole Knudsen. In the USA they used the Christianson spelling of the surname. Her daughter, Regina, on her marriage certificate added Bergh to the last name.
Unsure if they came from Oslo, or were living there prior to immigration. Would appreciate assistance in determining where she and her children were born and information on her parents and grandparents also.
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2008 : 09:20:54
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Based on the limited info I think that Karoline Khristensen and Karl Khristiansen could be the miller Carl Christiansen and wife Caroline Christiansen, nee Knudsen who in 1867 had a daughter Regine Constance, born June 6 and baptized June 30, see #99
they were then living at Brænderibakken 18 in Christiania (Oslo). Oscar and Emil not found (Christiania has many parishes!)
Carl and Caroline were engaged (and married Oct 7 in 1866), see the couple next to the last ones here
Carl was 29 years old coming from Urskoug (Aurskog) and his father was Christian Olsen. Caroline was 28 years old and came from Lillesand and her father was Knud Olsen.
Caroline was born Nov 23 1838 and baptized Caroline Regine Dec 2. Her parents were Knud Olsen and Ragnild Aanonsdatter living at Lofthuuseie. See #2
Carl was born April 16 1838 and baptized April 22. His parents were Christian Olsen and Sophie Eriksdatter living at Hedum under østre Berger.
In 1865 Sophie (Soffie) was a widow and her daughter and husband had taken over the farm, see here
Christian Olsen (28) Garsiøen and Sophie Erichsdatter (19) Østberger married Febr 22 1823, see #3 |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 26/06/2008 19:09:40 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2008 : 17:33:22
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Sophia Eriksdatter was born 1804 and baptized March 11, see the fifth from the top left hand page here
her father was Erik Christensen and the mother Eli Sørensdatter, the lived at Østre Berger.
Erik Christensen Østre Berger and Elen Sørensdatter were married March 27 1802, see #12
Elen was a widow from Næss Westre.
Her first marriage must hav been with a Christian since she in 1801 had a daughter Karen 3 years old, see 119
Elens parents were also at the farm, they were Søren Erlandsen and Thore Svendsdatter.
Elen was baptized July 21 1776, see bottom of page here
Erich Christensen was born Sept 29 1775 and baptized Oct 1, see #41
his parents were Christen Erichsen and Karen Asbiørnsdatter at Østre Berger.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 27/06/2008 06:13:53 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2008 : 19:07:46
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Caroline Knudsdatters parents Knud Olsen and Ragnhild Aanonsdatter were married April 27 1822, see #4
Knud was 29 years old and came from Froland Verk. Ragnhild was from Barboe, no age given.
Ragnild was i 1801 most likely 1700
her parents being Aanen Aslagsen and Helje Olsdatter.
Knud was working at the Iron Work in 1801, see 4288
his parents were Ole Carlsen and Marthe Knudsdatter.
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Einar |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 06:03:05
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First of all, thank you for giving of so much of your time doing these lookups. I did find my own confirmation for the following:
'Until 1918 the name was written “Urskog”, Aurskog is a former municipality of Akershus county'.
In your reference of the 1801 census, for Elen Sørensdatter, you indicate that her parents were also on the farm & that they were Søren Erlandsen, age 66, and Thore Svendsdatter, age 64. Is it reasonable to believe that Rønaug Erlandsdtr, in this same household, is most likely a sister to Søren; and that Sophie Svendsdtr, in the same household, is most likely a sister to Thore?
I find Ragnild Aanonsdatter appearing in the 1865 Census as a widow, living in the Lofthus domicile, in Vestre Moland as bortakkorderet Fattiglem, born 1797, birthplace of Øiestad Prgj.
The spelling varies from Øyestad, but phonetically similar. I attempted to translate the 'bortakkorderet Fattiglem', and what I come up with is 'contracted boarder, who is a pauper'. The exact words were not available in the dictionary - had to improvise. Does that seem reasonable?
I am finding it very difficult to read the script in the parrish books. Have some health issues currently that affect vision; so again thank you so very much for all that you provided. You confirmed for me, that a record a distant cousin had found on an LDS site, was not correct for Carl. I didn't think that it was.
Regine Constance, born June June 6th, 1867, was my g-grandmother. Her appending Bergh to her name, on her own marriage certificate, fits with your findings for Carl. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 06:23:50
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quote:
Is it reasonable to believe that Rønaug Erlandsdtr, in this same household, is most likely a sister to Søren; and that Sophie Svendsdtr, in the same household, is most likely a sister to Thore?
Rønaug and Søren may be siblings but it should be verified.
With regard to Sophie and Thore I am more doubtful since it is 36 years between their births, maybe they had different mothers?
Good translation of "bortakkorderet Fattiglem"!
Søren Erlandsen was baptized Dom 12 p Trinit. = Sept 8 1737, see here
his parents were Erland Vestre Næss (Sørensen) and Rønnaug Hansdatter.
Rønnow was baptized Dom 24 a Trinit = Nov 24 1754, see #2
her parents were Erland Sørensen and Marie Stephansdatter. Rønnow was called after Erlands first wife who died 1742.
(Erland had a second wife Anne Augensdatter and thier daughter Rønnaug died in 1747.)
Erland and Marie also had a son Søren who died 5 weeks old in 1853.
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 27/06/2008 07:39:01 |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 07:18:20
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One further question for now:
Per your reply, "Christian Olsen (28) Garsiøen and Sophie Erichsdatter (19) Østberger married Febr 22 1823, see #3, "
In the column, after her name, appears the name Erich Halverson of Nestberg. Would that be a witness? |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 07:42:36
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| Erich Halvorsen WestBerger og Peder Pedersen ØstBerger are "forlovere" - witnesses (best men) |
Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 27/06/2008 07:43:42 |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 20:04:26
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Again thank you, I should have looked a little further down the page in the dictionary I'm using. I came up with engaged, but knew that couldn't be correct:
forlovere - marriage witnesses, sponsors or cautionister (best men) who served as witnesses to the fact that the bride and groom were not so closely related as to prohibit the marriage.
That definition, I find of interest because it relates to my personal interest in doing a family history. I'm helping out my mother's cousin who started the same & doesn't do computers with the 'old country' information. My thank you to her, for having already compiled so much of the data on the folks that were born in the US & for providing I and my daughters with pictures. My mother lost all in a house fire 25 years ago. In the US, Carl and Caroline Christianson only had two children who lived to be old enough to have children, so it is a relatively small family. My mother's cousins are in their late 70s or early 80s.
I would give anything to have my mother working with me on this; she passed in 2001. She grew up speaking Norsk due to her Grandmother Jenny, living with them & went on to take Norwegian at Augsburg. I always told her she had 'cheated'. But, she felt the experience added a lot of value, when it came to writing and reading the language. She was often asked to translate old letters that people found going thru family documents. Her expertise now, would have been a 'very good thing'. I made it thru all of the data, up until your posting 27/06/2008 : 06:23:50. Try as I might, I can't 'see' the entries you are referencing.
My own interest in the family history, was for health reasons. I was looking for a 'too close marriage relationship' that might account for some of the immune system issues I and my daughters are dealing with. Do you know what they considered to be 'too close" for a marriage, or could you point me to a reference that might address it.
Currently, the Christiansen side looks like it might yield something, if I pursue the siblings of the parents. But, at first glance, I don't see what might be 'considered too close'.
I have yet to investigate my mother's paternal line, which might cross back to Carl and Carolines'. I have yet to meet with the pastor from the church where my g-grandparents attended. With luck I'll find some assist in determining where they originated in Norway. All I currently have for them are birth and death dates and their immigration record, 'ship' record. Only one of their six children lived to produce 2 children of her own; she then died and the 2 children were raised by her aging parents. Not much in the way of information came down the line on them. But, the church and/or naturalization papers for the g-grandfather may yield something.
You found so much so quickly, with so little. I'll do my leg work before asking for further assistance on the Grunseths. Thanks again. |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 06:34:13
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I gave my eyes a rest, and tried again to go thru your last posting of information for me:
"Søren Erlandsen was baptized Dom 12 p Trinit. = Sept 8 1737, see here
his parents were Erland Vestre Næss (Sørensen) and Rønnaug Hansdatter.
Rønnow was baptized Dom 24 a Trinit = Nov 24 1754, see #2
her parents were Erland Sørensen and Marie Stephansdatter. Rønnow was called after Erlands first wife who died 1742.
(Erland had a second wife Anne Augensdatter and thier daughter Rønnaug died in 1747.)
Erland and Marie also had a son Søren who died 5 weeks old in 1853."
I still can't make out the first, but I was able to view the second entry. This does confirm then, that Rønaug Erlandsdtr on the 1801 census is a half sister to Soren Erlandsen, both living at Naess Vaestre. Soren being the son of Rønnaug Hansdatter, and Rønaug Erlandsdtr being the daughter of Marie Stephansdatter, the first and third wives of Erland Sørensen? |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 07:14:49
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quote:
I still can't make out the first, but I was able to view the second entry. This does confirm then, that Rønaug Erlandsdtr on the 1801 census is a half sister to Soren Erlandsen, both living at Naess Vaestre. Soren being the son of Rønnaug Hansdatter, and Rønaug Erlandsdtr being the daughter of Marie Stephansdatter, the first and third wives of Erland Sørensen?
Some of the handwriting is not easy to read - I guess you have to accept my "interpretations".
Yes Rønnow (Rønaug) was Sørens half sister. |
Einar |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 29/06/2008 : 00:42:19
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It isn't your interpretations that I'm having a problem with. From what I have read on the naming conventions, your finds make sense to me.
I was hopeful that I would pick up enough of the geography, language, and how to dos; so that I could do some lookups on my own > past the census records. I wasn't trying to follow your work because I questioned your findings, I was doing it as a 'study guide'. But, I'm not a very good student it seems. I do apologize if anything I said, made you think that I doubted your interpretations.
I know it will be a long time before I can handle much on my own. With that said, would you look up ancestors for Carl's father, Christian Olsen (28) Garsiøen who married Sophie Erichsdatter (19) Østberger, Febr 22, 1823? |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 29/06/2008 : 05:43:45
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There was two Christian Olsen which were born in Hurdal (where the farm and saw mill Garsjø is) in 1795, one of them was a cripple and I would assume the other one to be Carls father. See the 1801 census here
and the birth record Dom 22 Trinit
Christians parents Ole Madsen and Anne Nielsdatter were married Febr 24 1786, see third couple here
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Einar |
Edited by - eibache on 29/06/2008 06:53:02 |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 05:06:50
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Thank you so much. The amount of possible information to follow up on the census record, is overwhelming.
I appreciate the pointer to the farm and sawmill Garsjøen as well. The alternate spellings and interchange of letters are still a puzzle for me. I wouldn't have figured this one out on my own. |
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crymisty
Medium member
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2008 : 05:30:37
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Located once again, the reference to 'too close marriages' that I knew I had found, but couldn't find when I needed it. It was in "Norwegian kirkebøker - parish registers by John Follesdal", excerpt follows:
Prior to 1800 it was against the law in Norway to marry one’s second cousin or the second cousin of one’s deceased spouse, or anyone who was closer related than that. In addition it was illegal to marry one’s stepparent or an in-law, or their direct descendants. It was, however, possible to obtain a Kongelig bevilling (royal permission) to marry one’s second cousin, but after 1800 such royal permission was no longer required. Royal permission was still required if one wanted to marry the widow of one’s brother or the widow of one’s uncle, and it remained illegal to marry one’s stepparent, an in-law, or their direct descendants.
I thought I remembered that only second cousins were considered to be too close; but was not sure. Am sharing so you know I found it and where.
In your first posting assisting me, you stated:
"Carl was born April 16 1838 and baptized April 22. His parents were Christian Olsen and Sophie Eriksdatter living at Hedum under østre Berger." But, you didn't give me the link & I didn't ask for it, because I wanted to try and look it up myself.
Still following in your footsteps, where you gave me the date, I was able to locate the record, my first successful parish lookup:
Source information: Akershus county, Aurskog, Parish register (official) nr. I 6 (1829-1853), Birth and baptism records 1838, page 62. Entry # 24, with Confirmation noted as 1853, #10.
Jumped from there to the Confirmation record that was cross referenced:
Source information: Akershus county, Aurskog, Parish register (official) nr. I 6 (1829-1853), Confirmation records 1853, page 327. #10.
Now I need help with two questions.
1) I am guessing that it is another cross-reference in the name column, but I don't have a clue as to what it relates to. Can you look at the confirm. record & tell me?
2) Also, am only able to make out clearly (I think) - two of the sponsors for Carl's baptism: Paul Paulsen, Hedum; Christopher ???; Peder Pederson, Østre Berger. Would you look at the baptism record, and see if you can read the rest of the sponsor listing for me? |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2008 : 20:16:09
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Sponsors for Carl's baptism: Paul Paulsen, Hedum; Christopher Olsen ibid (= Hedum); Peder Pedersen, Østre Berger, Marthe Eriksdatter ibid (= Østre Berger), Karen Pedersdatter ibid (= Østre Berger). (In the note it says that the father Christian Olsen died in Dec the year before).
The note in the confirm record says "Udfl" (= moved out) 1866 no. 16.
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Einar |
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Need information on Karoline Khristiansen b. 1838
