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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
 Posted - 08/08/2009 : 07:41:18
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Sorry Lyndal40,
I didn't mean to get the discussion off your question. Was just interested, since the more I searched for info on your topic, the more it sounded familiar.
Good luck, Wanda
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Lislcat |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 17:08:13
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No problem Wanda, you really did not digress.
You may be interested in this. I went back and looked at the Butveit section of the Grindheim book and found your Søren Jonason married to Siri Kristensdatter. The ancestry of Søren is listed there as follows.
Jonas Thoreson, Austre Sveindal, no wife
Thore Tollachson, no wife
Tollach Torson born 1606, married to Thorbør Buetved
There is a fairly long section in what must be old norse on Tollach Torson. One sentence refers to "thillige med hans souger Thollef Ollefssøn"
It would be useful to the rest of the section to know what that means.
I also have the Sveindal sections and will go back and look at those as well. |
Edited by - AntonH on 08/08/2009 19:27:18 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2009 : 19:58:53
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| The Butveit section of the Grindheim book lists a Ole Larson married to Ranni Iversdatter with two children Asbor who married Lars Sørensson Øydne and a Marte. There is no indication as to where Ole Larson came from, only the reference to the fact that he bought part of the use from Jonas Thoreson and his son. There is no indication that either he or Asbor are related to the Tollach line. In fact Wanda's ancestor Søren "hadde in 1810 kalla inn Lars Sørensen Butveit, og på krov vegne av yngste son odelsritt til 1/2 hud i Butveit som Lars satt med". If we can assume that Lars Sørenson Butveit and Lars Sørenson Øydne are the same then it would appear that rather than being related they are on the opposite sides of a dispute. |
Edited by - AntonH on 08/08/2009 23:28:34 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2009 : 13:56:23
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Hi Wanda and Anton,
the Mykland area is exiting.
I will try to translate from your two last replays Anton, difficult language and expressions, feels like Bambi on the slippery ice.
I am some confused about the meaning of souger, likley it´s an an old writing or a wrongspelling for svouger (brother in law), souger could means cheep (wrong in this example)
Reffers to "thillige med hans souger.....": like his brother in law Thollef Olleffsøn (Thollef Olavsen)
"hadde i 1810 kalla inn..": in 1810 he called Lars Sørensen Butveit on bahalf of his youngest son´s legal Odelsrett to 1/2 a skin in Butveith owned by Lars.
From this I read Sørens youngest son was heir to 1/2 a hud "skin" but after who?
Was his late mother, Lars Sørensen´s sister?
The value of a farm had to do with how much tax the owner had to pay to the outhorities.
The value of less than 1 "hud" skin was an "Øgegård" Desert farm, from 1-2 skin was a "Halvgård" Half a farm more than 2 skin was a "Fullgård" ( Complete farm, does it make any sence to you?)
The taxes of a Fullgård could be 12 Riksdaler, Halvgård 6 Riksdaler and Ødegård 3 Riksdaler.
Ødegård was also an expression for an abandoned farm after the Black Plague "Svartedauen" in 1350 where 50% of the population in Norway died, but this was 250 years later.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 09/08/2009 14:41:20 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2009 : 16:56:58
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Saouger meaning brother-in-law might fit best the passage from the Grindheim book.
The relationship between all of the people is for me at least sometimes difficult to follow since in this book unlike many bygdebøker a full list of family is not made. Perhaps that was just not possible. Anyway the youngest son of Søren Jonason and Siri Kristensdatter is not named and I can not find any relationship between Lars Sørensen Øydne and Søren Jonason or with Siri. That of course does not mean that there is not one, just that I cannont find it.
Thanks for all your efforts, perhaps we have flogged the baptismal date of Lars long enough. Although it did cause me to go back and look through the Grindheim book and that was useful. And I did not find a birth year for Lar indicating that the LDS data came from some other source. Maybe probate records as was posted earlier.. |
Edited by - AntonH on 09/08/2009 18:44:21 |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 16:53:52
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Takk for the translation, Kåre! It is very exciting to find info on Jonas Sørensen's parents. It looks like there is still work for me to do.
Takk to Lyndal40 for looking through the Grindheim book for me. It seems to me that there is obviously some connection, I just need to work to find it.
Good luck and sorry we didn't find Lars' baptismal record.
Wanda |
Lislcat |
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hasto
Senior member
Norway
294 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 21:11:47
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Today I borrowed the Grindheim bygdebok from our library. I found this link for you:
Asber Olsdatter Butveit (1785- ), daughter of Ole Larsen Butveit (1756- ) son of Lars Davidsen and Asber Olsdatter Sveindal, she daughter of Ole Jonsen (ca1680- ) and Torbor Torsdatter Sveindal
Søren Jonassen Butveit, son of Jonas Toresen Sveindal, son of Tore Olsen and Lisbet larsdatter Sveindal, he son of Ole Jonsen and Torbor Torsdatter Sveindal
I will have a look at the names further back to see if I can find a connection to my ancestry - |
Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 23:02:55
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Thank you Harald,
I have copied the chapters on Øvrye Øydne, Butveit and Vestre Sveindal and Austre Sveindal. In the section on Butveit p 405 right side I find #8 Ole Larson g.m. Ranni Iversdtr. with a small paragraph on him and his two children Asbor and Marte. The paragraph indicates that Asbor married Lars Sørenson Øydne. However this section does not give the full information you have posted above. I wonder if you would share with me the page number or numbers where you found the information posted above.
Also I intrepreted the information in the Butveit section to give the father of Jonas Toreson Sveindal to be Thorre Tollachson not Tore Olsen. It is possible that your Tore Olsen is the same as the Tollef Olsen listed as the brother in law of Thorre Tollachson.
Futher your information would indicate that Wanda and I are related, albeit a long long ways back but related non the less with the common ancestor of Ole Jonson and Torbor Torsdatter Sveindal. That would probably help explain all of the various lawsuits between the various parties referred to in the Grindheim Butviiet section.
I will now look again at the two Svinedal sections to see if I missed all the information you posted. |
Edited by - AntonH on 10/08/2009 23:04:43 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 23:49:44
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| Well, I certainly have obtained a lot of information out of my simple request for a baptismal date. I have looked again at the Sveindal sections and input into my FTM program all of the variious people who are related to one another in some form and fashion. When I finished that I ran the relationship calcualor and it gives me the information that the wife of Lars Sørenson Øydne, Asbor Olsdatter Butveit is a 2nd cousin to Søren Jonassen Butveit. There are many people in this family relationship and keeping them all straight is a tough job, but I think I have a start on it. |
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hasto
Senior member
Norway
294 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 01:20:40
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Asber Olsdatter Butveit (1785- ), daughter of Ole Larsen Butveit - from Sveidal p 405(son of Lars Davidsen p 388 and Asber Olsdatter Sveindal, she daughter of Ole Jonsen (ca1680- ) and Torbor Torsdatter Sveindal p 378
p 404 says that Jonas Thoresen Austre Sveindal inherited the farm from his uncle (father's brother) Jon Olsen Butveit. Then his father must be a Thore Olsen. The siblings of Jon Olsen is mentioned on p 404, the same people as the children of Ole Jonsen Sveindal on p 378
The book has not made it easy!
Note also that Ole Sørensen, a brother of Lars Sørensen p 70 Øydne, married to Lisbet Olsdatter, a daughter of Ole Thoresen (brother of Jonas Thoresen).
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Harald S Storaker
4586 Korshamn, Norge |
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Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 01:38:55
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Tusen takk Harald!
This is very exciting! I had a feeling that they were related, especially once the lawsuit was mentioned as I have other relatives that did the same thing on another farm. I will have to sort this all out. Once I put it in my program, it will be easier to see the connection.
Anton, I am not related to Jonas Sørensen by blood, since my great great grandfather was his stepson, but his real father died so young, that Jonas was the only father he really ever knew.
I'm very happy that I decided to help you search for Lars Sørensen's baptismal record.
Takk igjen for hjelpen!
Wanda |
Lislcat |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 11/08/2009 : 23:28:15
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| Thank you for the page numbers Harald, with those and several different colored Magic Markers, and most of a day, I was at least mostly able to sort out the various relationships. A very complex family indee. |
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Birth date for Lars Sorenson
