| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
 Posted - 18/03/2012 : 00:29:10
|
This one is interesting reg. Harald´s father;
Hans Olsen born to "Gaardmand" Farmer Ole Hansen and Ragnild Olsdatter Dalen plads? (not sure) under Midbøen (Midbø)
Plads was Norwegian for subfarm.
This Dalen seems to be something under Midbø.
If Dalen was a subfarm under Midbø Ole Hansen would not have been a "Gaardmand" Farmer, but a "Huusmand" Cottager.
I still think the widow is an interesting candidate.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 18/03/2012 00:53:22 |
 |
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 01:11:08
|
Here is the only Margit Olsdatter in the deaths in 1848. I can't read the word that describes her status (some of the others say huusmands kone and the like) but she is on Haugen paa ____ #41:
Source information: Telemark county, Hjartdal, Parish register (official) nr. I 8 (1844-1859), Death and burial records 1848, page 295.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7799&idx_id=7799&uid=ny&idx_side=-248
|
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 18/03/2012 : 01:53:33
|
Going back to the beginning, we don't know where the information in the original query came from, if it came from a record source in US or if it's the result of research in Norwegian records or online database, etc.etc.
If the Harald Hansen identified leaving Norway in 1868 is the correct person, (born 1844 Hjartdal) why isn't he in the 1865 census?
Here are the Harald (exact spelling) born in a place containing "rtdal." All were still living in Hjartdal in 1865:
Pers.no. Household Given name Last name Family pos. Occupation Marital status Age Sex Birth place
22 22 1 Harald Ols. Husfader Husmand g 70 m Hjertdal 63 29 Harald Halvors. Søn ug 29 m Hjertdal
102 34 Harald Ols. Søn ug 29 m Hjertdal
117 14 Harald Johannes. Søn hjælper M. med Bruget ug 30 m Hjertdal
158 21 Harald Ols. Søn ug 2 m Hjertdal
244 6 Harald Ols. Søn Frihandler ug 27 m Hjertdal
249 11 Harald Høljes. Søn ug 9 m Hjertdal
380 17 Harald Hans. Søn ug 11 m Hjertdal
405 8 1 Harald Haralds. Husf Husmand med Jord g 60 m Hjertdal
576 5 1 Harald Sørens. Husfader Husmand med Jord g 38 m Hjertdals Prgj.
582 11 Harald Haralds. deres Søn ug 2 m Hjertdals Prgj.
587 16 Harald Gulliks. Tjenestedreng ug 19 m Hjertdals Prgj.
635 34 1 Harald Gregers. Husfader Gaardbruger og Selveier g 48 m Hjertdals Prgj.
956 21 1 Harald Kittils. Husfader Jordbruger g 42 m Hjærtdals Prgj.
The only one born close to 1844 or 1846 is Harald Gullikson.
|
Edited by - jkmarler on 18/03/2012 02:01:12 |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 19/03/2012 : 09:59:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is the only Margit Olsdatter in the deaths in 1848. I can't read the word that describes her status (some of the others say huusmands kone and the like) but she is on Haugen paa ____ #41:
Source information: Telemark county, Hjartdal, Parish register (official) nr. I 8 (1844-1859), Death and burial records 1848, page 295.
Permanent pagelink: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7799&idx_id=7799&uid=ny&idx_side=-248
Margit Olsdatter "Legdskone" Welfare recipient b. 1808 on Mellom-Berge.
Its the same Margit Olsdatter married to Søren Haraldsen, she died 1848. This family was very poor, at least two of the childern from this marriage were taken care of by others because of poverty when the father died.
She died on; Haugen on Aakre Hjartdal 1848.
Hjartdal consists of four areas;
Gvammen & Ytre (Eastern) Hjartdal, Sauland, Tuddal and Nordbygda.
Haugen, Stuvø (Stuvøyi) and Midbøen are located to Gvammen country side in western Hjartdal
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 19/03/2012 17:19:55 |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2012 : 10:44:30
|
Harald Hansen´s father Hans Olsen Dalen was born on Dalen under Midbø Sept. 11. 1820.
Parents; "Gaardmand" Farmer Ole Hansen and Ragnild Olsdatter Dalen under Midbø, see #10
And he left Bækkhus in Kviteseid parish 1851, see Jackies posting on page 2.
His father Ole Hansen was from Dalen and his mother Ragnild Olsdatter from Berge (Mellom Berge) when they married June 18. 1818, she was 20 and he was 30, see left page #6
Ragnild´s parents; Ole Olsen and Margit Sigurdsdatter Mellom Berge. 4 children in 1810; Halvor, Ole, Anne and Ragnild
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 20/03/2012 13:17:31 |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 20/03/2012 : 13:35:07
|
Em. 1851 on Bark Columbus, Hans Olsen Bakhus with wife and a son Ole, passengers #42-43-44
Kåre |
|
|
|
dickfuhs
New on board
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2012 : 00:04:02
|
| HERE IS A NEW WRINKLE IN TRYING TO DETERMINE HAROLD HAROLDSON HANSONS PAST. ACCORDING TO THE BETHANIA CEMETARY BURIAL RECORDS MAINTAINED BY THE MOODY COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAROLDS BIRTH DATE IS REFLECTED AS "MAY 26, 1844" . HOPEFULLY THIS WILL BE OF HELP. THANKS LOADS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS CONTRIBUTED INFORMATION FOR ME. |
Dick Fuhs
Sioux Falls, South Dakota, USA |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2012 : 00:15:47
|
Here is one Harald born in Hjartdal in 1844 but not on either the March or May date #94:
Kildeinformasjon: Telemark fylke, Hjartdal, Ministerialbok nr. I 8 (1844-1859), Fødte og døpte 1844, side 10.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7799&idx_id=7799&uid=ny&idx_side=-12
Here is a Harold b. 1845 in Hjartdal, also not either date #3:
Kildeinformasjon: Telemark fylke, Hjartdal, Ministerialbok nr. I 8 (1844-1859), Fødte og døpte 1845, side 11.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7799&idx_id=7799&uid=ny&idx_side=-13
In 1846, the Harald already discissed #35:
Kildeinformasjon: Telemark fylke, Hjartdal, Ministerialbok nr. I 8 (1844-1859), Fødte og døpte 1846, side 16.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7799&idx_id=7799&uid=ny&idx_side=-18
|
Edited by - jkmarler on 28/03/2012 00:21:36 |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2012 : 10:52:24
|
Reg the date May. 26. 1844 is confusing. Is the date find in a document?
From Jackies posting above;
Harald #94 b. Oct. 21.1844. Parents farmer Ole Haraldsen and Margit Halvorsdatter farm Lia under Haave in Gransheard, present Hitterdal (Heddal) municipality.
Harald #3 b. jan 7. 1845. Parents Lodger Gunleck Christiansen and Anne Ellingsdatter farm Øverbø in Hjartdal.
I believe Harald Hansen #35 born Marc 26. 1846 to Hans Olsen Dalen and widow Margit Olsdatter Stuvø living on Midbøen when he was vaccinated 1848 and em. on bark Rjukan 1868 is the correct Harald.
Harald married Anna Jonsdatter Haugeberg in the US, father Jon Tovsen Haugeberg from Hjartdal.
Can´t find him in the 1865 census, not uncommon that some were forgotten.
Kåre |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2012 : 11:56:35
|
Acc. to this page Harald Hansen Midbøen married Anna Jonsdatter Haugeberg Mai. 24. 1870, link
Kåre |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 28/03/2012 : 16:26:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by dickfuhs
HERE IS A NEW WRINKLE IN TRYING TO DETERMINE HAROLD HAROLDSON HANSONS PAST. ACCORDING TO THE BETHANIA CEMETARY BURIAL RECORDS MAINTAINED BY THE MOODY COUNTY HISTORICAL SOCIETY HAROLDS BIRTH DATE IS REFLECTED AS "MAY 26, 1844" . ....
Hi Dick,
Truthfully, the biggest problem I see with research on this guy, in the past, is that no one has documented the sources of their information.
If you examine even the simplest piece of data such as his birthdate, there is an amount of variation amongst the places quoted on this topic.
This variation a fairly ordinary occurrence when doing family history research and we have all experienced that.
However, the best protection is to get to the original source of the information, or to get a record which cuts across the inadequacies of other original records.
For instance, I would be less concerned about the variations in the records of his birthdate if the Hjartdal origin clue is true. If he was born in either 1844 or 1846 in Hjartdal and his name was Harald, I can look through every birth/baptism record of Hjartdal and collect all of Harald, study them, eliminate the impossible and accept the likeliest.
Another thing which needs doing is analyzing the records you do collect, their history etc. You contacted the Moody County Historical Society and they have the records of the Bethania church. My question is do they have the actual original handwritten church registers or do they have a printout of the data which is widely available online? The difference is, in spite of any transcriber's efforts to create a perfect set of the data in found in some other original document, it is another layer of human input which can create error. If you get a copy of the actual register and his birthdate is written exactly as recorded in the online database then you know, if it's right or if it's not right, it only depended on one person making a mistake or recording accurately.
Another trouble is that if you rely on other people's data and research you have a great likelihood of creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. For instance, what is the origin of the Hjartdal origin clue? Is it a supposition on the part of a researcher -- your cousin, perhaps--since Harald's supposed first wife's family was from Hjartdal, he must or might be from Hjartdal or is it in a record someplace that we haven't yet seen or is it from a story passed down through a family?
If all the database creators quoted on this topic were accepting the supposition of another researcher that Harald was born in Hjartdal and we go out and look into Hjartdal records and find a Harald of approximately the correct age we have fullfilled the prophecy and maybe not gotten to the truth.
What I can tell you is that there is no Harald b. in Hjartdal on
either:
26 March 1844
26 May 1844
Jackie M. |
|
|
|
Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 29/03/2012 : 22:45:39
|
Well written Jackie.
Hi Dick.
I guess all the different information available on Harald are based on assumptions since it as I see it there is no document published that refers to him in the United States.
We must assume that Harald (Haraldsen) Hansen Midbøen was his real name.
As I see it today there was only one Harald Hansen Midbøen and he em. to the US and was born in Hjartdal March 23. 1846 living on Midbøen when he was vaccinated Oct. 19. 1848. His age in the vacc. record is written as 4, it can be one of the reasons why the year 1844 shows up.
Finally.
I 1865 there were 371 persons living on Midbø/Midtbø/Midtbøen farm in Norway.
In 11 municipalities in Telemark 213 persons lived on one of these farms.
Kåre |
|
|
|
Lislcat
Advanced member
USA
690 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 00:25:42
|
I've been following this topic a bit, since part of my family is from Hjartdal and I wanted to see if there was a connection.
Jackie - on the 1900 US Census that you referenced, the 1818 date that was transcribed as the immigration date, actually looks like 1856 or 185? on the document itself. That does not jive with the Harold Hansen that supposedly left Hjardal, emigrating on the bark Rjukan in 1868.
Is there any real facts supporting that this person is from Hjartdal? The name Dalen is quite common and my father had cousins that were Dalen, but I believe they were from Oppland.
In my opinion, more info needs to be gathered on this person in the U.S. and then work your way back, only using documented records, to make sure that you have the right person. I'm not that concerned with a birth date being different, because I've seen that with my family too, but you need to make sure that the person that you find in Norway, is the actual person you are searching for.
Do you have Harold Haroldson Hanson's death certificate and obit? What about books on the history of the town that he lived in? I just really think that the answer may be in the U.S.
Good luck!
Wanda |
Lislcat |
|
|
|
AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 02:12:21
|
Wanda has a good point. Looking at the three Family Tree's leads one to conclude that at least some of them must be wrong. One has a son named Anton born Dec 12, 1871 while another has the son named Anton born 3 Feb 1886 and a son named Ole born 16 Sep 1870, with different mothers of course. I think that the son is Ole and that this is his 1910 US Census record.
1910 United States Federal Census
Name: Ole Hanson
Age in 1910: 39
Birth Year: 1871
Birthplace: Iowa
Home in 1910: Grovena, Moody, South Dakota
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head of House: Head
[Self (Head)]
Marital Status: Married
Spouse's Name: Annie Hanson
Father's Birthplace: Norway
Mother's Birthplace: Norway |
|
|
|
jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 30/03/2012 : 02:16:53
|
Hi Wanda,
The 1900 census linked to earlier in this topic concerns Harold Hanson's family, since the records indicate that Harold has passed on. The migration date in the census probably refers to Harold's widow (2nd wife) Ingeborg rather than Harald's date.
Since it appears he died in 1891, there are only a few years in which information about Harold might be gathered from censuses. If he came in 1868 one would expect that he would be in the 1870 US census, 1880 US census, and possibly the 1885 Dakota Territorial (if he resided in one of the counties for which the census schedules survived, all of North Dakota counties and only a few South Dakota counites.)
I have looked for him in the 1870 census as Harald Hanson, Harold Dalen, Harold Haroldson at www.familysearch.org and HeritageQuest, with no success.
One of the earlier- mentioned databases in which Harold Hanson is contained --I think the one in Ancestry-- mentions his wedding date to Anne the daughter of John Thovson Haugeberg as occuring on 24 May 1870.
On the usgenweb.com page for Winneshiek County, Iowa there is a database entry for a Harry Hanson marrying an Anne Thompson in 1870, no full date is found there but getting the actual certificate might be helpful if it mentions which church they married in, who were the witnesses, and if the names of parents are mentioned (although both would have been "of age") by then, etc., etc.
If all works here is the link to the page where the marriage of Harry Hanson & Anne Thompson is:
http://iagenweb.org/winneshiek/Marriages/1870-1880/H.htm
Seeing the name Harry made me go back and search the two 1870 databases for Harry Hanson but again no luck.
HeritageQuest was rather interesting though as it found a few people in Winneshiek county, Iowa with the surname Hanson but the familysearch,org search found none. So at HeritageQuest I searched only for the first name Harry who were born in Norway and found two a Harry Olson and a Harry Larson. This Harry Olson was in Lincoln Township, Winneshiek County, Iowa. Harry Olson was aged 26, born Norway, had $500 of personal property and was a "saloon keeper". The other person in the household was a woman named Anne T. age 22, keeping house who was born in Wisconsin. However if this couple was indeed the one marrying on 24 May 1870 there was no mark signifying the marriage occured within the 1870 census year which means between 1 June 1869-31 May 1870. I've not been able to duplicate this result in familysearch.org's 1870 census search but any who have Ancestry who want to give it a whirl, have at it!
Kåre's observation about the age 4 on the vaccination record is highly intriguing. Lots of folks carried their vaccination attest to America as a form of identification and that may go a ways to explain why someone might think they were born in a particular year vs. another.
Yes an obit would be a fine thing to find!
Jackie M. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 30/03/2012 05:43:56 |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Harold Haroldson Hanson (Midboen)
