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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 23/04/2013 : 00:50:21
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Ah - Got it. Thank you!
I checked the 1880 census again and it does say Lars cannot write. Wouldn't it be hard for him to tell the census taker how to spell the farm name? Perhaps a spelling of the farm name evolved in the USA based on how he pronouned the farm (how it sounded to an American). |
Edited by - JaneC on 23/04/2013 00:53:51 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 01:25:24
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I realize more proofs might be found in the USA (and should be, if possible), as was suggested. For example, we could look for the probate of Lars Olson.
If those proofs cannot be found, is it reasonable to say Nettie Larson in USA = Nellie Larson in Hurdal? Is the evidence enough?
How many Lars Olson Gilbecks can there be, with daughter Maren Janette Larsen and sons Ole and Louis/Laurits?
One does wonder why Nettie is getting married in Colfax, Dunn county, Wisconsin, rather than in Monroe County/Vernon County. (another further research project for us - the counties seem to shift boundaries, based on the records, need to work on that geography problem.)
And who is Ole Andreas Olson, her husband? I don't find him in the USA census before 1880 or in any USA record before his marriage; he was called Andrew and I've searched on the Ole/Andreas/Andrew variations. I wonder if knowing more about him would also lend insight into Nettie's family. (Probably not.) We cannot find his place of death, date of death, or death certificate.
I posted on Ancestry message board pointing to this forum.
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Edited by - JaneC on 23/04/2013 01:32:47 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 02:02:45
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In the North Dakota Public Death Index online between 01 Jan 1900-31 Dec 1909 there are 9 Ole Olson deaths recorded. There is none as Ole A., there is an Ole F. in Benson County b. 17 Aug 1861 and d. 17 Aug 1909. (Curious to dying on the same date as birthdate)
Couple of things figure into the comprehensiveness of the records. Many deaths were not "certfied" with an official record in the early years. There could be records of funerals or newspaper articles about a decedant for whom there is no certificate.
Maybe the family had moved to Montana prior to his death.
Have you found the 2nd marriage record? That husband b. 1881 would have been required to register for the draft in 1917. If his record is found it will likely have an exact birthdate and possibly a place where he was born (of course depending on if he's still alive in 1917)
All the documentation on the children of Ole A and Jeannette should be secured to scour for any clue about Ole.
Re the question of what is "enough" evidence, if this was my search I'd want more just to extinguish any doubt or be able to say that every rock was turned over.
There is a searchable database of ELCA church records which includes a lot of the old Norwegian Lutheran churches found in America available for subscription. It's at archive.org. Sorry it's at www.archives.com I haven't used it myself but it might be of value... |
Edited by - jkmarler on 23/04/2013 02:09:38 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 02:41:21
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Thanks for thinking about the Ole Andreas Olson part of this puzzle!
> "In the North Dakota Public Death Index online between 01 Jan 1900-31 Dec 1909 there are 9 Ole Olson deaths recorded." Yes
> "Maybe the family had moved to Montana prior to his death." Absolutely possible. Nettie herself moved to Culbertson, Sheridan, Montana and died there.
> "Have you found the 2nd marriage record." I haven't pursued any information about Oscar Olson. The family member has searched for a marriage certificate, did not find. I searched for a marriage license, did not find. You're right, good point - the location of that marriage could indeed be a clue to the final resting place of Ole Andreas Olson. It's also possible OAO is alive and divorced from Nettie. To be pursued.
> "All the documentation on the children of Ole A and Jeannette should be secured to scour for any clue about Ole."< Agreed. That was my first undertaking in the Ancestry thread, to "follow the children." From that exploration came key clues, such as Joseph Mellon Olson's birth record (where Nettie's full name of "Maren Janette" is given). I searched for Ole Andreas Olson in the locations of his children. Another researcher might find him; I did not. Like Ole Andreas/Andrew, his son Peter Leonard Larson (aka Lenard P.) is MIA after 1900 census. To be purused
> "There is a searchable database of ELCA church records which includes a lot of the old Norwegian Lutheran churches found in America available for subscription." < I did not know that - an excellent resource!
I did suggest the family write to the church in Colfax, Wisconsin, which was part of a small offshoot sect.
Ancestry has several family trees that include the children of Nettie Larson Olson, as well as some beautiful portraits of her, the children, and Ole Andreas Olson. The descendants seem to know where this generation is. (To remind you, this is not my family.) In checking into it, my impression was that descendants (or whoever created the trees) had identified the same records I had for the children plus some additional. I do question the validity of certain entries on the trees, but mostly the generation of Nettie's children seems well known from family story.
Briefly:
* Bernhard Olsen b 22 Apr 1880, christened at Faith Lutheran Church of Running Valley, Colfax, Dunn, WI. 1910 Bennie Olson and Emma in McHenry County, North Dakota with children Marvin and Clifford. WWI draft registration in McHenry County confirms identity - same birth date etc Same two children 1920. Died August 1965.
* Peder Leonard Olsen, 15 Aug 1881, christened Faith Lutheran Church of Running Valley, 1900 census as posted; nothing more.
* Josef Mellen Olsen b 05 Mar 1883, Faith Lutheran Church of Running Valley, Colfax, Dunn, Wisconsin. World War I draft record in Culbertson, Sheridan, Montana. 1920 and 1930 census in Roosevelt County, Montana, brothers Joe M Olson and Owen M Olson living together as bachelors.
* Owen Morton Olson. b 22 May 1894, Dents Lake, North Dakota. Obituary for Owen posted on Ancestry tree gives his birth place as Jerusalem, North Dakota. World War I draft record Culbertson, Sheridan, Montana. FYI: Conscientious objector. 1940 Whitefish, Flathead, Montana w wife Ima, son "Junior," and two step children. Died 1966 in Whitefish.
"Jenneattie Olson" died 12 Jan 1930 in Culbertson, Roosevelt [sic], Montana, social security death record. Family member also has death certificate (info from it posted in opening query).
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Edited by - JaneC on 23/04/2013 03:10:09 |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 07:26:18
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| Rømmerud that Lars Olsen came from when he married, see map. |
Einar |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 11:49:14
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From McHenry County: Its History and Its People, compiled by Corabelle Brown published 1985, pg 333 "Bennie and Emma (Olson) Olson" story by Evelyn Olson Lenton:
Bennie Olson was born April 22, 1880 in Lacrosse, Wisconsin and passed away August 22, 1965 in Culbertson, Montana. His mother was Nettie Olson.
Emma Helen Olson was born November 8, 1882 at Ashby, Minnesota the daughter of Anders and Ingrid Olsen. She passed away at Culbertson, Montana on April 13, 1969.
Bennie and Emma Olson farmed southweast sic of Simcoe in Section 28 of Hendrickson Township from the early 1900s until about 1923. They then moved to Montana where they ranched until they retired. They were the parents of twin sons, Clifford and Marvin who are also ranchers.
There is also a picture of their house, of the twins standing by their home in McHenry county taken about 1916 and a note that the house is still standing on the property today meaning 1985. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 12:20:40
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There is a Peter L Olson dying in Benson listed in the ND Public Death Index:
OLSON, PETER L 10/16/1900 Benson MALE 18 Years 99/99/9999 North Dakota Benson
ND Death certs are fairly cheap at $5/each. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 13:49:21
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Lars Gjelbeck = Lars Olsen was born Sept 12 1833 on Rømerud under Disserud, see #84 - parents Ole Jocumsen and Marie Haagensdatter.
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Einar |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 16:35:24
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
From McHenry County: Its History and Its People, compiled by Corabelle Brown published 1985, pg 333 "Bennie and Emma (Olson) Olson" story by Evelyn Olson Lenton:
This "Bennie and Emma Olson" entry in this book is a wonderful find! Thank you! |
Edited by - JaneC on 23/04/2013 16:36:46 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 16:43:11
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
There is a Peter L Olson dying in Benson listed in the ND Public Death Index:
OLSON, PETER L 10/16/1900 Benson MALE 18 Years 99/99/9999 North Dakota Benson
ND Death certs are fairly cheap at $5/each.
This is SO worth ordering! Peter Leonard was called Lenard in 1900 census...But now as I consider, it is likely his mother or father would have been the informant on his death cert, and it makes sense they would use his christening name (if this is him). We should definitely get this. And - there's no harm done if this is the wrong person. Thank you so much! |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 16:50:21
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
Lars Gjelbeck = Lars Olsen was born Sept 12 1833 on Rømerud under Disserud, see #84 - parents Ole Jocumsen and Marie Haagensdatter.
So amazing to see original records - WOW.
I also looked at the map. You are helping me understand that these many place names are all clustered fairly close together. I still haven't grasped the geography well enough to interpret how it applies to USA. The "Coon Valley" article (I posted a link, from a website suggested by you guys) suggests that Vernon County Wisconsin had two main settlements of Norwegians and they maintained distinctive subcultures rather clearly defined for quite a long time. The two settlements were populated by Norwegian immigrants from two different areas of Norway. There was a third, smaller, "in-between" group as well. the article stresses the uniquely strong persistence of the two sub-cultures. Westby, Wisconsin, which is in this area, still holds a large Norwegian festival every year. Point being - it is important to know the geography in Norway - but in the case of this family who settle in this area the Norwegian geography also illuminates the family's experience in America.
Thank you for all! |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 16:52:55
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
There is a really sketchy database at rootsweb which contains the Lars Gjelbek you have found. Also not recently attended last date of update is 2008:
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2454674&id=I528705260
Seriously? - Checking into this now...
Okay, great!, this yields new territory to investigate.
On this tree Lars GJELBEK and wife -
Karoline Kristiansdatter Bjornstad -
have a son Mathias GILBECK.
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On Google search I found a reference to "at Melby and in 1837 at Limset (Gjelbek), both farms in Feiring...Child: Kristian, born 1834. Emigrated to Westby, Wisconsin in 1854..."mother's father's father, Lars Olson Gjelbeck (born 1833), came to the United States from Feiring, Norway in 1872. I would like to know more..."
!
This reference appears in a PDF that wouldn't open for me. The Google "hit" shows just a little bit of the text. Also showing is the name Bjornstad. Title of theh PDF is "2093 Feiring, Norway."
LINK:
home.online.no/~e-brod/tjue93.pdf
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Edited by - JaneC on 23/04/2013 18:23:20 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 18:22:47
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More for you to check out here
Kåre |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/04/2013 : 18:25:17
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Great - thank you Kåre! I will go look now.
Ah - Ole Jochumsen Fagernes Disserud-Eie appears on a GENI tree. Bless the dear people who share their genealogy!
I am moving the USA "MAYBE" stuff into this post as it is not relevant to the original question in this thread.
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Also on the family tree that jkmarler found is Mathias Gilbeck son Lawrence, who married Jeanette.
1940
Coon Valley, Vernon, Wisconsin
Lawrence Gilbeck 28 b 1912 Wisconsin
Jeanette Gilbeck 25
Joanne Gilbeck 2
Mary Gilbeck 1
An obituary for Jeannette Thune Gilbeck appears at Find a Grave and says the two married at Westby in 1936. She and Lawrence are both buried at Moen Cemetery, Cashton, Monroe, Wisconsin. This is the SAME CEMETERY as the family of Lina Larson Gelbeck Fremstad, previously mentioned (daughter of Lars Olson Gjelbek ):
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=GIL&GSpartial=1&GSbyrel=all&GSst=51&GScntry=4&GSsr=41&GRid=35233153&
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OBITUARY: CASHTON WI
"Alice (Gilbeck) Amundson, 91, of Cashton passed to her eternal rest Saturday, Jan. 3, 2009, at Norseland Nursing Home in Westby....She was born to Alfred and Josephine (Hanson) Gilbeck in Portland Township of Monroe County [Wisconsin] on April 6, 1917. She was baptized and confirmed at Skogdalen Lutheran Church, rural Westby. Alice married Elmer Amundson on Nov. 26, 1938...."
Lars Olson Gjelbek buried at Skogdalen Cemetery.
Alfred Gilbeck is buried at Skogdalen Cemetery also.
Need to find Lars with second wife and children in USA.
1940
Portland, Monroe, Wisconsin
Alfred Gilbeck 54 born 1886 Wisconsin
Josephine Gilbeck 49
Chester Gilbeck 24
Raymond Gilbeck 20
Edna Gilbeck 18
Clarence Gilbeck 12
Virgil Gilbeck 9
Should I delete this stuff? It's not organized findings - just notes for future reference. I had not found Lars Olson Gjelbek after 1880 (except for the burial). |
Edited by - JaneC on 23/04/2013 18:26:37 |
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Maren Janette Larson b 1857-1863 imm to Wisconsin
