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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
 Posted - 15/07/2002 : 15:11:08
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I found myself talking to natives of an area south of Trondheim and they confirmed that the name Skutese means "fleet" or "many ships" but that is a local slang , particular of that area.
They told me that in Norway there are lots of dialects and slang variations that, sometimes, people from the south can't understand the language from the north unless it's Nynorsk, Bokmal or English.
Is it true? Because if so the search narrows to one particular area.
Thank You
Aurora |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 15/07/2002 : 17:34:58
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What area was that? I actually live not very far from Trondheim, and I have never heard that slang. If you provide more info on that area I will check it out, I also know of a man who is a professor of dialects in Norway, and could ask him.
Børge Solem |
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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
Posted - 16/07/2002 : 15:17:23
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I don't know the name of the place but I know it is an island, they never specified it to me but I can let you know, if I meet them again I will ask them.
As for the professor of dialects, it would be really interesting if he could confirm that such a dialect exists because that would mean that my name comes directly from there.
Thank You Borge
Aurora
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thelebrity
Senior member
Norway
234 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2002 : 11:08:18
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Yes there is a conglomerate of dialects in Norway, but if you are a norwegian you will have to be very ignorant or have a bad hearing not to be able to understand all of these dialects. It is however true that you can pinpoint where people come from by listening to their dialect. If they haven't been moving around it's possible to locate where they come from very accurate. People who aren't separated by more than a island, fjord or an valley will often have slightly different dialects that reveals their home place.
Per Helge Seglsten |
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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
Posted - 19/07/2002 : 21:26:30
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Unfortunately, I can't speak Norwegian because I was born in Italy and my family has considered themselves Italians since the 1820, so I really don't know if before then they spoke this language.
Besides, they told me it was slang (not a dialect), so if you can tell so accurately, thelebrity, you should know exactly where in Norway they speak this slang. |
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thelebrity
Senior member
Norway
234 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2002 : 15:53:26
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I never ment to say you were ignorant. But I am not afraid to stat that a norwegian claiming he doesn't understand what another norwegian is saying speaking his dialect, has to be ignorant. I knew all along you weren't norwegian and of course dpn't expect you to understand the language if you haven't studied it. Slang and dialect is as you point out not the same. And when I say it is possible to pin point where a norwegian is from by listening to his dialect it doesn't mean every norwegian knows how to do that. Me, like most norwegians, will only be able to decide which fylke a person is from. In the end what I tried to say was that a professor with knowledge of norwegian dialects might be able to tell where in Norway the word skutese is used. And that they who told you that people from the south of Norway can't understand what people from the north are saying is wrong. Or talking about ignorant people.
Per Helge Seglsten |
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James E Heg
Member of honor
USA
135 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2002 : 21:03:15
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I find this dialog quite interesting. I am surprised that the web site moderators so strongly deny that Norwegians from different regions sometimed have difficulty understanding each other.
During a field trip with an NRK crew two years ago, Erik Bye and his cameraman, whom I believe was from the Bodo area, had a bit of difficulty commnuicating in Norwegian. In a discussion during dinner that evening both of these men related that this was not, repeat not, uncommon in Norway, due to different dialects existing in various areas in Norway. Though he was educated in Wisconsin, I take Erik Bye as a quite authoritative voice with respect to Norway.
Another example, from an earlier era is set forth by Mr.Harry Cleven in the the forward to a book. Mr Cleven had lived in Norway since 1979 and is associated with the Norse Federation in Oslo. Here is a quote: "There were language difficulties not only between the Norwegians and other nationals, but between Norwegians themselves who came from various parts of Norway and spoke their own dialects."
He then quotes Waldemar Ager, "Nearly all the widely varying Norwegian dialects were being spoken somewhere or other at one time or another, and sometimes the men had to resort to a limited knowledge of English to make themselves understood. Also this quote, "God alone knows what kind of people we're mixed up with here. They claim they are Norwegians, and they cuss in Norwegian, but when most of them talk, I can't figure out what they are saying."
Since the website is largely dealing with history, it makes sense to give consideration to the dialect problems that certainly existed during the time frame of our interest. This problem is, to some extent, common to all countries, even today.
This seems a bit of a good bonfire. I thoughtI would throw some fuel on it.
Jim Heg
Erik Bye is a friend of mine.
Edited by - James E Heg on 06/08/2002 21:08:16 |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2002 : 23:40:10
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 As I am the only web site moderator participating in this tread, I will like to point out that I do NOT deny that Norwegians from different regions some times have difficulty understanding each other. What I say is that I have never heard that "slang" before, and that I will put the question forward to someone who is an expert on the area. I am a "Trønder", and our Trønder dialect is known to be hard for others to understand, and yes, I have experienced that when traveling in Norway.
I also think it is true that some people will have language difficulties with people from areas where that speak a very differing dialect from what they do them selves. However, I think this problem was greater before, when the different areas were more isolated. With the modern infrastructure we have today, the dialects seam to have a tendency to fade away as the modern society demands that people can understand each other. I agree with Jim, this is a very interesting subject!
Børge Solem |
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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2002 : 16:15:37
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I had written a reply regarding dialects in Norway, but the forum said I had misspelled my username and when I went back to correct it, the message had disappeared.
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thelebrity
Senior member
Norway
234 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 00:11:55
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Borge: That had to be in the Bærum area;c)
I still argue that if a norwegian claims he doesn't understand another norwegian dialect he has to be arrogant or in need of hearing aid. Of course there are words that could be difficult, but in a conversation there really shouldn't be any problems. Myself I don't have any dialect, as I've grown up outside military camps all along Norway from Ski to Kirkenes. But I've never had trouble understanding even fast speaking people from the innermost areas of Sogn. And dialects from Trøndelag, give me a break!
Erik Bye and his camera man had to be talking with their mouths full of food if they had problems understanding each other, or it might have been a single word or expression that caused the trouble. Norwegians having to speak english to understand each other, now that's rubbish! I don't know how it was a hundred years ago, but to day a norwegian starting to speak english to another norwegian would experience the third official norwegian language; slagsmål.
Per Helge Seglsten |
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Borge
Veteran Moderator
Norway
1297 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2002 : 09:18:29
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Slagsmål...
I agree with Per Helge, that it in our days problems understanding dialects would be limited to single words or expressions. However, you do not have to go many decades back in time, to find people living around the country, who had never traveled outside the valley where they lived, and who had never owned a TV.
The dialects are loosing terrain, and old fashion words and expressions are filtered out. I could make a list of old word and expressions from different Trønder dialects which I think most people would have great problems with understanding, but again, those are single words.
Børge Solem |
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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 15:49:45
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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
Posted - 12/08/2002 : 16:07:30
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I just wanted to add that we have the same problem all over Europe, and it seems like it's happening the same also in the States.
English spoken in England is drifting apart from the same language spoken in the States.
In the States we have trouble understanding accents and slangs from the South.
One example I have is about Italy, there every region has its own dialect, and different areas of that region have variation of the same dialect, this because of the influence some cultures have had in one area more than another during the past century's invasions.
When somebody from the South speaks in their local dialect, people from the North don't understand a word, and vice versa.
To communicate they have to either speak in their official language (i.e. Italian) or English.
So I understand this problem very well.
But still my question remains unanswered, if most of you are claiming that it's easy to understand the various Norwegian dialects, how come nobody has explained the area of origin of the word Skutese and the exact meaning of it?
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James E Heg
Member of honor
USA
135 Posts |
Posted - 13/08/2002 : 01:14:57
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Aurora - Since our friend thelebrity doesn't seem to want to cut us any slack on this topic, and by his experience is more knowledgeable than most Norwegians, and since no one has answered your question, I took a look at the dictionary of old words posted on this site. There is no exact word "skutese" but there is a word "skute" meaning small ship. I am not familiar with Norwegian slang but you seem to be on a good track. Maybe Børge or another moderator can suggest what happens when "ese" or "se" is added to a word. Perhaps it suggests "many small ships." I couldn't find a word for "fleet." This may not help but it makes me feel better. Jim Heg
Erik Bye is a friend of mine. |
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thelebrity
Senior member
Norway
234 Posts |
Posted - 13/08/2002 : 16:25:40
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Aurora:
My guess, if Skutese origins from norway, is that the -se originally was -sø (old spelling of sjø=sea) There is a farm named Skute, and if it had a small sub farm it could have been named skutesø, and not been mentioned in the 1801 census or the old farm name's encycylopedia "Norske gaardnavne".
Per Helge Seglsten |
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aurora
Starting member
17 Posts |
Posted - 13/08/2002 : 18:20:32
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Thank You
I think fleet is "flote" but I believe the correct translation,in this case,is "many ships" (that's the way it was translated to me).
Where is the Skute farm located? What fylke?
And is there also a town called Skuteness?
I will take in consideration both translations, because also Skute sjo is a possibility.
I had suspected in the past that the name could be Norwegian but not until I started being more interested in genealogical research did I look for the exact meaning of the word.
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Dialects and Slang
