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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 14/11/2016 : 12:20:08
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Well, spearson's ancestor John is the SAME John Pearson as discussed in this thread, which is born out by the reference to Lilly. (The John in this thread had a daughter Lilly) So spearson's John is not a different person descended from a Wenneberg.
The John Pearson in this thread was supposedly born 29 April 1836, but no compelling source was ever stated. (Source was a 1920s notation in a local Blue Hills archives; no further clarification of what that means). He went to the USA as a child, age 8 - so about 1844 (per family story). Story says he lived with an aunt. Family story says he was in the US Navy. Family story says traveled to NSW Australia ca 1860. Naturalization papers say John Pearson b 1837 in Kragera, Norway, arrived on the Oscar in 1860. Posted newspaper report had a ship Oscar arriving via Melbourne (I didn't note where arrived). Married Martha Alderman 1863 (source?). She was born in England; father was Charles; 10 children; 8 lived to adulthood (Ancestry.com tree). John Charles born 1864 (per descendant who posted). Worked on railroad. In later years said he wished he could trace family in Norway (family story). Therefore, seemingly not in contact - which means descendant knowledge of him in Australia came from him. Family story says original name Pederson. Death record says John Pearson died 22 March 1913 age 76; birth place Karagira, Norway; no other info from it posted. No obit posted. Tombstone "says age 77" (per descendant).
The Wennebergs were proposed as parents and ruled out. Nothing in NSW found so far points to Wennebergs in the ancestry of the John in this thread.
spearson hasn't yet explained about the Wenneberg trail, but certainly it would be great to hear more about that. I suspect the source was an erroneous family tree on file at that local archives - just a guess.
An earlier thread on this topic
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Edited by - JaneC on 15/11/2016 05:53:04 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 14/11/2016 : 17:35:26
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Support from Australia is needed to most effectively carry forward, and one gets the impression spearson is not seeking the forum's help and hence may not return.
Hill End Family Center indeed does accept genealogies from descendants, who presumably can be as accurate or as inaccurate as we see in other places, such as online trees.
link
"Venneberg" is a place in Eiker, Buskerud, I think. Anyone born there or having lived there could leave a trace of that name behind him in Australia. We don't know until we know. It's possible "Venneberg" is valid, but at this time John being connected to that name seems more likely to be a mistake than not.
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Edited by - JaneC on 14/11/2016 18:33:06 |
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spearson
New on board
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2016 : 05:29:15
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Hi Everyone.
I'm back! Actually this Forum has been extremely helpful to my family and I want to thank everyone here for helping so much. Sorry for the brief impression. Tim has been doing much of the research. I've even discovered another forum member researching John Pearson here from 2002 who turned out to be distant family as well.
Much of my post about Christiana was copy/paste straight out of the Hill End History I discovered.
I meant in my last post that Elizabeth was married to Petter Hench, not their son John, who I know was married to Martha Alderman in Australia in 1863 after arriving in Australia via NZ on a ship called "the Oscar" in 1860, according to the copy I have his Naturalization (granted in 1892).
When I google Wennebory, I find only 7 results on the entirety of Google, whereas Wenneborg is a more common family name. But Venneberg is very likely also. Your research about Johan Carl is clearly a different John, since he appears to be in Norway when John was in Australia.
Jane’s summary in her other post is pretty much spot on with the clues we have. There were actually 9 Children that made it to adulthood, giving John Pearson 42 Grandchildren. I’m from Henry Pearson, b 1872. Janray said her great grandma was born 1887, which matches with John and Martha’s child Lilly. I had hoped to make contact with her, but I feel too late. I hope she reads this forum again sometime in the future.
The thing is, I'm unsure which relative helped compile the info on John's Parents at Hill End, So I can't ask them where they got their source from. They may have just chosen that John born in 29 of April, 1836 and went with it. Janray used the same date in her post, so she may have used the same source.
The trouble with John's Birthdate is that nobody seems to know. I know great grandchildren of John who haven't an idea of a birthdate either. His official documents say born Karagira on death certificate and Kragera on his Naturalization.
I hoped to follow up on this other John. I know it pushes the limit of his birthday, but could this John lead to anything? https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/7839/27
Again, thank's for helping with the research. I'll keep it at.
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S. Pearson |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 15/11/2016 : 05:54:21
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quote:
I hoped to follow up on this other John. I know it pushes the limit of his birthday, but could this John lead to anything?
This might be the marriage of this other John if I understood your post to mean number 16 in Digitalarkivet..
John Brynnildsen
in the Norway Marriages, 1600s-1800s
Name: John Brynnildsen
Age: 34 years
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 1840
Marriage Date: 16 jun 1874
Marriage Place: Tinn, Telemark, Norway
Spouse: Anne Anfindsdr
Spouse's Age: 26 years
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Birth Date: 1848
Father: Brynnild Johnsen
Spouse's Father: Anfind Gunbjornsen
See also number A10 on this page
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/kb20061128350260 |
Edited by - AntonH on 15/11/2016 06:03:43 |
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spearson
New on board
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 29/12/2016 : 08:00:26
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Hi Everyone!
I’ve been still working on John Pearson in my free time.
I’ve since reconnected with his Grandchildren of from all 9 branches of his children. Found photos of him from 1872. Read about his life in Lawson and the legacy he left.
But still, the mystery is no closer to being solved.
The 29 April 1836 Birthdate comes from a Pioneers Register from the region he lived in. It’s also mentioned that his place of birth was Cristiana (now Oslo) Norway. The book states Pre-1920, but it includes the death dates of both him and his wife in 1913 and 1924, It seems it’s written after her death. Can’t be certain where they got the date from.
John’s Tombstone says aged 77 years. He died 21 March 1913, while his Death cert says aged 76. Someone is wrong. Not sure which. But since one of his child’s birth certificates in late March 1887 say ‘Father aged 51’
Anyway. Since his naturalization paper says he arrived in the colony in NSW by the ship Oscar in 1860, I’ve looked it up
There is a ship log online.
http://marinersandships.com.au/1860/04/073osc.htm
No Pearson’s. But there is a John Scott aged 24
So the fact that it comes from New York is interesting.
Since talking to other relatives. They’ve got their own memories and memories of their parents (John’s grandkids who knew Martha when she was alive). The names they heard were Pierre Johannson, and Johan Peterson was another recollection. It’s said that his parents died early in his life and at age 8 went to the US (as a cabin-boy on a sailing ship) to live with relatives.
There was never any mention of the Oscar ship from their side. Instead from this source it’s said that John joined the US navy and deserted his ship with his friend Niels Hertzberg Larson, another Norwegian, and went west with barely any money to their name. Possibly changing their name on the run.
Now while that’s a nice story, I’ve asked a descendant of how Niels Larson how he arrived in Australia and he gave me a ship log.
http://marinersandships.com.au/1854/07/062psy.htm
Though it says he was from Denmark, he was in fact from Norway. John would have to be 18-20 in 1854 and no one matches up. It’s more likely that John knew Niels personally from the gold rush days since their mining towns were right next to each other. They could have been friends and Chinese whispers of how they both arrived off boats, from Norway and how they both changed their names at one point (possibly twice for John) and got the story mixed up over generations.
I still like the American angle though, since leaving New York means the orphan story is true.
Rereading the forum, I really liked the idea that John Peterson, aged 14 in 1850 that jkmarler came up with.
http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=24&filnamn=US1850&gardpostnr=129&merk=129
Maybe he went their to live with an uncle?
The son of Peder Guldbrandsen idea doesn’t match the census, since john was married in NSW in the 1960’s.
The more I do, the less I feel I’ll ever find his parents, since it seems clear that even John didn’t know who they were. Says here that he tried to find his family in the future but had trouble with lack of records and he had lost his language from living away.
I just wanted to give everyone an update. I feel like since both major stories place him in America at some point and there is evidence from his ship log that he was there, then that may be the best place to search at this point. This forum has been an incredible resource in connecting my family.
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S. Pearson |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 29/12/2016 : 15:46:11
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Here is the link to the 1850 census transcription listing of the Orgin Tomasin household (in which John Peterson is found), once you are there you can click on the image link to view the whole schedule:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M4DX-3ZY
As I recall, I was unable to find anything more substantial about the family. The census schedule itself shows that Orgin owns about $1000 worth of land. Most likely there will be records of that at the Columbia county courthouse, his purchase (as long as it wasn't obtained as part of the US Federal homestead law) and the sale or disposal of the land.
There is also a Norwegian vessel named Askur which some folks in US remember as Oscar which was operating in the early 1860s, Don't know if it ever made the voyage to Australia or New Zealand or not, though.
In the ship portion of the main page here at Norway Heritage you can look at some facts about the vessel:
http://www.norwayheritage.com/p_ship.asp?sh=askur |
Edited by - jkmarler on 29/12/2016 15:59:16 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 29/12/2016 : 19:46:17
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Maybe this is Orgin / Osgin Thomasen (not a perfect match)
link
Emigration
link
Departing Skien 19 May 1843 on bark Winterflid
Augen Torgrimsen 39
Ingebor 38
Liv 14
Ingebor 12
Torgrim 9
Tollef 2 |
Edited by - JaneC on 29/12/2016 20:02:29 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 29/12/2016 : 23:29:10
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This might be the John Petersen from the 1850 Census still in Columbia County Wisconsin along with the person known as Eula in the 1850 Census. Occupation listed as a unreadable maker.
John Peterson
in the 1860 United States Federal Census
Name: John Peterson
Age: 29
Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Norway
Home in 1860: Portage Ward 4, Columbia, Wisconsin
Post Office: Portage
Family Number: 766
Value of real estate: View image
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Geetrich 30
George Helman 24
John Peterson 29
Emdy Peterson 27 |
Edited by - AntonH on 29/12/2016 23:32:26 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2016 : 00:52:02
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Orgin has a FAG memorial:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=torgrimson&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSst=51&GScnty=3002&GScntry=4&GSob=n&GRid=140853386&df=all&
This family is in Volume I of the Norwegian Immigrants to the United States A Biographical Directory 1825-1943 by Gerhard Naeseth pg 258
There' s not a lot on them in US. It says Augund was born in Sauherad on May 3, 1804 the son of Torgrim Olsen Aarnæs and Liv Ougensdatter. Ingeborg was baptized 23 Dec 1804 and was the daughter of Tollev Tollevsen Gunnem and Ingebor Hansdatter.
The daughter Liv was born 23 Oct 1828 and married at Koshkonong 23 Dec 1846 to Leif Johannesen Dahle and they had one child. Leif Johannesen Dahle was also from Sauherad b there 29 Sept 1819. Came first to Koshkonong then to Otsego, Columbia county. He married 2nd Mari Torsteinsdatter on 24 Feb 1853
The daughter Ingeborg was born 2 or 21 Feb 1831.
The son Torgrim was born 25 May 1834
The son Tollef was born 23 July 1841.
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Edited by - jkmarler on 30/12/2016 01:42:33 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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spearson
New on board
Australia
4 Posts |
Posted - 30/12/2016 : 01:42:39
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This is some great stuff.
The Askar is a little hard to trace up since it stayed mostly around Norway in the 1960s.
I like the census a lot. I think the household has the Mother as Gurnell Peterson, maybe widowed with three children. John being her first child. The older Thomasin Couple could have no relation. Maybe Norwegian friends or one might be Gurnell’s relative. The trouble is that there are quite a few family members, doesn’t match up with the orphan story well, since he’d be old enough to remember them could pass that story down. His first name, age, birth country and American angle is all we have to go off.
Lyndal’s census is likely a different John Peterson, since his birth year is too far back.
Sadly my John’s history may forever remain a mystery to the family and to the corners of this web forum. He just didn’t leave us with enough to go off. :(
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S. Pearson |
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Johan Pedersen Born April, 1836.
