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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
 Posted - 11/02/2014 : 09:09:42
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quote:
Tom Forland may be this fellow Tormod Tormodsen Førland :
- most likely a different family, this one is from Suldal.
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Einar |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 13:35:32
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quote:
Originally posted by eibache
quote:
Tom Forland may be this fellow Tormod Tormodsen Førland :
- most likely a different family, this one is from Suldal.
Very possibly! |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 15:52:29
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Thanks eibache. So we're still looking for Tom and Kristiana in Baldwin county, Alabama, in 1904....(they should be present IF the online family bio is correct)
linda about the marriage in Cook County, Illinois, an original marriage record (which you can order) has more info than the online transcriptions. And you can seek additional corroborating evidence also, such as Annie's death record, which may tell her maiden name. In addition, if you email the Forland Farms folks, they may be able to tell you the answer from family stories. Common sense is telling us this marriage record is worth pursuing.
About the 1900 and 1910 census - yes it's the same family!
You asked, "Could the census worker not know how to spell "Ragna" or "Trygve"" Yes, or this could have been a time when the family was focused on assimilation and were Americanizing the way they called themselves, or ....list goes on, of reasons for discrepancies! You have accumulated a nice high pile of circumstantial evidence that "matches" your family with that 1900 census so we can calculate it is correct. |
Edited by - JaneC on 11/02/2014 17:21:38 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 19:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here's a possible Tom Forland as Tom Ferland:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MM53-24F
The various Forlands seem to come from Rogaland.
Here's the Tom Ferland from the Family search census Jackie posted: -- Found out this is not Osmund's brother
1900
Stillwater, Carbon, Montana
Thomas Ferland 38 b Dec 1862 Norway
Wife Emma Ferland 22 b Jan 1878 Iowa
Family tree on Ancestry gives his parents as Thomas Ferland b 1835 in Stavanger, and Levi Jacobson b 1840 in Stavanger.
Siblings:
Bertha Ferland (Førland) b 15 Sep 1860 in Rogaland, Norway
Thomas Ferlin (Ferland) b 19 Dec 1862 in Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway m Emma Flieder; d 1919 Canada
Lars Førland b 19 Apr 1866 in Rogaland, Norway
Sigrid Førland b 14 Sep 1868 in Rogaland, Norway
The online bio could be in error (and/or the family who provided it might be in error) and perhaps Tom = Osmund Tormudsen Forland?
Another way to look at original records instead of just online transcriptions: Microfilms can be rented from the FHL (Family History Library, the Latter Day Saints project that also maintains the Family Search website). Fees are modest.
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Edited by - JaneC on 12/02/2014 19:39:41 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 20:17:38
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TIMELINE
1872 Probable immigration; arrive Quebec. Quebec is a port of entry. Most Norwegian immigrants entered North America at Quebec. Many went immediately to the USA.
1880 - Osmund should be in the 1880 US census if he went to USA after landing in Quebec. Where is he?
MARRIAGE (as indexed on Ancestry.com)
Marriage Date: 4 Sep 1889
Marriage Place: Cook County, Illinois
Osmund Forland age 34 born about 1855
Spouse: Annie Thorson age 29 born about 1860
FHL Film Number: 1030184
1889 U.S. City Directories collection (Indexed on Ancestry.com)
Lawrence Forland, clk., 402 Milwaukee Ave, bls 189 W Ohio
Osmund Forland, (O. C. Wold and Foreland), 402 Milwaukee Ave, bds 189 W Ohio
I think bds = boards = residence
1890 U.S. City Directories collection (Ancestry.com)
Name: Osmund Forland
Residence Year: 1890
Street address: 61 N Centre av
Residence Place: Chicago, Illinois
Occupation: Grocer
Publication Title: Chicago, Illinois, City Directory, 1890
*** No other Forlands on the page
1897 US City Directories collection (Ancestry.com)
Name: Osmund Forland
Residence Year: 1897
Street address: 1172 S Oakley av
Residence Place: Chicago, Illinois
Occupation: Grip
Publication Title: Chicago, Illinois, City Directory, 1897
1900 US Census
Lowell, Baldwin, Alabama
Osn Forland 45 b Feb 1855 Norway, to USA 1887, married 1890
Annie Forland 40 b Dec 1859
Johnnie Forland 9 b Jul 1890 Illinois
Annie Forland 7 b Oct 1892 Illinois [should be Ragna]
Oscar Forland 3 b Feb 1897 Illinois
Theodore Forland 1 b May 1899 Illinois [should be Trygve in Alabama]
RETURN to 1900 census and examine year of immigration. I think 1887 is Annie's listed immigration, not Osmund.
1918 World War I Draft Registration
John Forland, age 27, born 15 July 1890 in Chicago, Illinois
Single. Occupation, farming, employed by "my father" in Silverhill, [Baldwin county], Alabama
1920
Loxley and Robertsdale, Baldwin, Alabama
Osmund Forland 65 b abt 1855 Norway, to USA 1872, naturalization pending, farmer
Anna Forland 60 b abt 1860 Norway, to USA 1888
John Forland 27 b Illinois, mechanic
1930 - Osmund, see linda post
"1930 census in [Oakland], Alameda County, California which lists: Osmund & Annie, Meidel & Ragna & sons, Trygve and Daisy and children, all on the same Page. The three families went to San Francisco first with Paul Christiansen and family, then the three families bought property in Oakland, California."
San Francisco is immediately across the San Francisco Bay from Oakland.
1930
Loxley and Robertsdale, Baldwin, Alabama
John L Farland 39 b abt 1891 Illinois, farmer
Florence E Farland 33
1935 US City Directories collection (Ancestry)
Osmund T Forland
Street address: 4400 Davenport av
Residence Place: Oakland, California
also listed: Trygve M Forland (Daisy) stevedore, 4545 Reinhardt dr
Alabama Deaths (as indexed on Ancestry.com)
Name: John T Forland
Birth Date: abt 1891
Death Date: 4 Jan 1950
Death Place: Rural, Baldwin, Alabama
Death Age: 59
Gender: Male
Father Name: Asmanda Forland
FHL Film Number: 1908846
** Original may tell mother's maiden name |
Edited by - JaneC on 12/02/2014 18:51:56 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 20:30:46
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MARRIAGE
Laurits Tormodsen Fórland, age 26
Birth: 27 jul 1871 in Tysvær
Father: Tormod Andersen Fórland
Marriage Date: 15 aug 1897
Marriage Place: Stavanger, Rogaland, Norway
Spouse: Karen Serine Sivertsdtr Askeland
FHL Film Number: 307149, Reference ID: Page 156 Line 31
UK Outward Passenger Lists (same guy?)
Name: Laurits Forland
Age: 32 , born about 1871
Occupation: Joiner (= carpenter)
Departure Date: 4 Mar 1903
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Destination Port: New York, USA
Ship Name: Germanic
Incoming passenger record, same guy on the same trip as above, Lauritz Forland arrives New York on the Germanic 13 March 1903
Lauritz Forland age 31, U.S. Citizen
Final destination: Chicago
American Citizen, County Court, Grundy county, Illinois 05 Nov 1894
Died in Norway
Name: Lauritz T Førland
Death Date: 13 Feb 1956
Burial Date: 18 Feb 1956
Burial Place: Tysvær, Rogaland, Norway
Age: 84
Birth Date: 27 Jul 1871 |
Edited by - JaneC on 13/02/2014 03:28:05 |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 20:39:55
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| I looked for Canadian censuses because according to two California censuses 1900 & 1910 He came to this country in 1886 or 87, however, again nothing popped up. I looked for immigration from Canada, and again nothing. However, I am working with Ancestry.com. |
Linda Christiansen |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 20:45:35
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| an added fact to consider, after Raymond Forland's divorce, He met Anna Forland on one of his visits to the family in Alabama. I remember his first wife, Sibyl, made a fuss because according to her, he married his cousin. Now I actually kind of remember, she was his 2nd cousin, and they were way past child bearing age. I think that maybe several Forlands, relative or not, immigrated to the same place, because they knew each other. isn't the Name "Forland" the name of a farm in Norway? |
Linda Christiansen |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 20:47:57
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| I am not so sure about the Forlands in Montana, because I never hear Montana referenced to the family, but I can't possibly throw it out altogether. You two have given me so much to work on! |
Linda Christiansen |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 20:54:09
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Again, as previously posted
1865 census in Tysvær prgj, Tysvær sokn, Rogaland, Norway
Tormod Anders., married, age 44, Gaardbr Selveier, b Tysver Prgj. - born about 1821
enumerated on separate page but next to:
Johanne Osmundd. married, age 36, b Tysver Prgj
Anders Tormods. age 18, their son, hjelper Faderen m. Gaardbr (helps father with farm)
Osmund Tormods. age 12, hjelper Faderen m. Gaardbr
Tormod Tormods. age 8
Soffie Tormodsd. age 4 [= Karen Soffie Tormodsdatter, died 1879]
+ one servant girl / Tjenestepige
Tormud Andersen and Johanne Osmundsdatter had two children more after the 1865 census:
Ranvæg b 1866
Lauritz b 1871
This could be the birth-baptism of the same Tormod, from Family Search website:
Name: Tormod Andersen
Gender: Male
Event Date: 29 Jun 1821
Event Place: TYSVAER, ROGALAND, NORWAY
Birth Date: 18 Jun 1821
Father's Name: Anders Knudsen
Mother's Name: Ranveg Tormodsdr
I can't really see a person born in 1821 buying a farm in Alabama in 1904. So if "Tom Forland" did buy that farm, I don't think he's this Tormod. Could be a brother to Osmund? |
Edited by - JaneC on 12/02/2014 22:13:21 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 21:30:40
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quote:
Originally posted by lindachristiansen
I am not so sure about the Forlands in Montana, because I never hear Montana referenced to the family, but I can't possibly throw it out altogether. You two have given me so much to work on!
I don't think that Tom Ferland is related to you, or if so, not closely and not of immediate interest. Sometimes we post "candidates" to be someone we're looking for, then investigate the candidate, and he/she turns out to be a different person. We were trying to find this "Tom and Kristina Forland" who first bought Forland Farms (according to that article we found). Perhaps the easiest course is for you to contact the Forland Farms folks and ask who he is.
Another task that seems as if it might end up on your to-do list:
Find the full birth date for Osmund Forland in a US record
and/or
Find the name of the parents for Osmund in a US record
Some avenues to find this: original marriage record, naturalization papers, death record, obit, obits of his children. Death record is the best bet.
Finding his parents and birth date in a US record will confirm his identity in Norway (presuming these match the person Jackie found in Norway). So far I haven't seen these in an online transcription, have you? Thus the original documents must be sent for (or microfilm equivalent), and that has to be done by you. (sorry)
A Lauritz Forland was listed in the 1889 Chicago city directory living at same address as Osmund, so it is quite possible they are related. I did view the naturalization card for Lauritz 1894 and it did not state his place of birth. |
Edited by - JaneC on 11/02/2014 21:43:38 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 21:48:02
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quote:
Originally posted by lindachristiansen
an added fact to consider, after Raymond Forland's divorce, He met Anna Forland on one of his visits to the family in Alabama. I remember his first wife, Sibyl, made a fuss because according to her, he married his cousin. Now I actually kind of remember, she was his 2nd cousin, and they were way past child bearing age. I think that maybe several Forlands, relative or not, immigrated to the same place, because they knew each other. isn't the Name "Forland" the name of a farm in Norway?
Great lead. So that would be Osmund's second wife (or anyway a later wife) than the Annie he married in Chicago. If you can find out her name etc. and post, great. Since you now recall that Osmund remarried, consider whether it is the second wife who might be remembered (by your father) as Olsen?
Realize I'm not clear what you mean by "After Raymond Forland's divorce, He met Anna Forland on one of his visits to the family in Alabama." When was it, and was this Anna the second wife of Osmund, not the first?
Yes Forland is the name of a farm. The Osmund Tormudsen Forland that Jackie found came from a Forland farm, or his father did, at some point. The father is noted (in the birth record found in Norway) as "Tormud Andersen, Forland." The online biography for Forland Farms says "Tom and Kristina" came from "Forland, Norway."
It's a typical naming pattern that a person would have his/her own first name (Osmund) and a patronymic name, which is the first name of his father + son (Tormud's son). Then after that often comes a place name.. The place name can change when the person moves. (Osmund, Tormud's son, from Forland = Osmund Tormudson Forland).
In North America Norwegian immigrants had to adopt a surname in the sense that we think of a surname - the father's last name is passed down (not his first name). Immigrants usually chose their patronymic (e.g. Thorsen, Andersen, Tormudsen) or their place name (e.g. Bakke, Vollum, Forland).
As you can see from all this, people in the USA who used a place name like "Forland" could be neighbors in the old country but are not related.
Siblings to Osmund might possibly be using Tormudsen (or an Americanized version of that name) if they came to the USA.
Also, in the 1889 city directory listing for Osmund (posted above), he is listed as working for a company called "O. C. Wold and Foreland." Possibly - maybe - this could be relatives, or neighbors, from Forland, who are spelling the name "Foreland." Maybe.
You can adjust for this possibility in a digital search on Ancestry.com by using a wildcard *
For*land will give you Foreland and Forland. |
Edited by - JaneC on 11/02/2014 22:31:06 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 22:07:37
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Would you please look again at 1900 census and examine year of immigration?
1920 US census says Osmund immigrated 1872. Matches Jackie's find.
Several records posted called him "Osmund T Forland." Matches Jackie's find of Osmund Tormudsen, son of Tormud Andersen, Forland.
1900 US census gives Osmund's date of birth as February 1855. This is different from Jackie's find of Osmund Tormudsen, who was born in January 1854 or 1855.
A little more evidence of identity (from US records) would be welcome. |
Edited by - JaneC on 11/02/2014 22:12:33 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 11/02/2014 : 22:51:52
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quote:
Originally posted by lindachristiansen
I looked for Canadian censuses because according to two California censuses 1900 & 1910 He came to this country in 1886 or 87, however, again nothing popped up. I looked for immigration from Canada, and again nothing. However, I am working with Ancestry.com.
The person who is probably your Osmund arrived Quebec 1872 and is found in Chicago 1889. A likely route is to hop on another ship at Quebec, same day or very soon after arriving, from there travel along St Lawrence seaway route to Port Huron (at Detroit, Michigan) and enter the USA there, and then travel down to Chicago by train. That's one possible scenario. But you're right, he could be in Canada in the intervening years. You can try specifically searching Port Huron database for USA entry; first look at the available dates for transcribed records ( I think it's limited...)
But the date of birth and parents names of your Osmund are more important, because if the 1872 guy isn't your Osmund, why bother finding his USA entry? Let's try to stablish the identity of your Osmund first.
About those later dates of immigration listed for Osmund...I have a theory those reflect the date of immigration of Annie, not him.
Early on, you stated that "Osmund came to the USA in 1872." Where did you get that info? |
Edited by - JaneC on 11/02/2014 23:01:53 |
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Information on Marthin Christiansen
