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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
 Posted - 12/02/2014 : 22:27:36
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| That is soooooo cool about the Ragna. Thanks Jane. I really do not want to go to work now. I'd rather stay right here and follow through with all this information. Thanks everyone! |
Linda Christiansen |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2014 : 23:00:27
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Summary of the family of Osmund Tormodsen Forland
Tormud Andersen, Forland, b 29 Jun 1821 at Øvre Førland, Tysvær Prgj., Rogaland, parents Anders Knudsen and Ran(d)veg T(h)ormodsdatter. Died 17 Sept 1910 in Tysvær
*** Tormud first married Johanne Osmundsdatter; next married in 1904 to Kristine Holgersdatter
Johanne Osmundsdatter [= Aasmundsdatter], born about 1829 at Nygaard Storking? in Tysvær to father Aasmund Aasmundsen Hxxxxxxx? (per death record); died 12 March 1879 in Tysvær
THEIR CHILDREN
1) Anders Tormodsen, born about 1848 at Øvre Førland, Tysvær; married 1889 Ingeborg Gudmundsdatter; said to be age 61 and living in Tysvær in Sep 1910 (mentioned in father's probate); died 1918. Maybe also children with Berte Gurine Knutsdatter? (per online tree, not researched by us)
2) Osmund Tormodsen, born 12 January 1854 at Øvre Førland, Tysvær; to USA 1872; married 1889 Anna Thostensen in Chicago; farmed in Silverhill, Baldwin, Alabama; died 16 May 1938 in [probably Oakland,] Alameda county, California
3) Tormod Andreas Tormodsen born about 1857 at Øvre Førland, Tysvær; married Malene Serine Danielsdatter; seaman; lived at Strandgaden in Haugesund; died 01 June 1899 in Haugesund, Rogaland (his widow and their five children mentioned in 1910 probate)
4) Karen Soffie Tormodsdatter, born 1862 at Øvre Førland,
farm in Tysvær and died 1879, age 17, in Tysvær
5) Ranvæg Tormodsdatter b 02 August 1866 at Øvre Førland in Tysvær; died 1883 age 17 (per the family tree online, not researched yet by us)
6) Lauritz Tormodsen b 27 July 1871 at Øvre Førland in Tysvær; went to Chicago 1888 to 1897, returned to Norway, married Karen Serine Sivertsdtr Askeland; died 13 Feb 1956 in Tysvær
Only Anders, Osmund, and Lauritz survive when their father dies in 1910. Tormod has died, but his widow and their children are mentioned in the probate. |
Edited by - JaneC on 13/02/2014 15:52:37 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 12/02/2014 : 23:24:57
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More about Anders Tormodsen
Birth of his son here, Tormod Johan Andersen b 10.06.1890 at Tysvær prestegjeld, Tysvær sokn. The baptism witnesses include Anders's father Tormod Anderssen of Førland, and also Anders's brother Tormod Tormodssen, no residence noted, and his occupation is Jægteskipper (a seafaring job title), and Tormud's wife Mallin D. Førland, "Skippers hustru." (hustru = wife)
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/dp/person/pd00000001664791
1900
Førland øvre farm in Tysvær, Rogaland
Anders Tormodsen born 1849 in Tysvær herred, married, occupation gaardbruger, selveier (type of farmer)
Ingeborg Gudmindsdtr. born 1853 in Tysvær herred, married, gaardmandskone (= farmer's wife)
Tormod Andersen, son, born 1890 in Tysvær herred,
+ one tjenestepige ved gaards=og husstel (hired helper / servant girl)
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01037288000568
Same place, 1910:
Residence name: Førland øvre, Tysvær herred
Tormod Andersen born 10.06.1890 in Tysvær, hf, g, gaardbruker
Randi Førland born 16.12.1871 in Ølen i Fjeldberg, hm, g, gaardmandskone
Anders Tormodsen born 25.08.1849 in Tysvær, hf, g, føderaadsmand
Ingeborg Gudmundsdatter b 27.11.1853 in Tysvær, hm, g, føderaadskone
hf = husfader; hm = husmoder; g = gift = married; kone = wife
So this is two married couples, Anders and wife, with son and wife
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01036651000765
1918 Death of Andreas Tormodsen Førland, born 1849 at Førland, married
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/gr/person/pg00000000327534
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Edited by - JaneC on 13/02/2014 05:08:21 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2014 : 00:53:38
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More about Tormud Tormodsen
Here is Osmund in 1885, with his brother Tormod and Tormod's wife and children (notice how the names match the 1910 probate). Both brothers have an occupation of sømand = seaman or sailor
1885 Norway Census
Strandgaden in Haugesund kjøpstad
Tormod A. Førland born 1859 Sømand in Tysvær
Osmund Førland born 1855 Sømand in Tysvær
Malene Serine Førland born 1859 in Tysvær
Johanne Sofie Førland born 1883 in Tysvær
Tormod Reinert Førland born 1884 in Haugesund
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/ft/person/pf01053293001446
So let's ask the opinion of others about this. Did he go to North America and return? And then go back again? I have seen it before that a person is enumerated in the census in Norway, but the person is living in the USA. So maybe that could be the case.
In 1889 Tormod Tormodsen, residence Føreland, is a baptismal sponsor in Tysvær along with his wife Mallene Danielsdatter. His occupation is Grdbr. (a type of farming I think)
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/en-gb/kb/dp/person/pd00000001664359
In 1890 Tormod Tormodsen is a baptismal sponsor and noted with occupation Jægteskipper (a seafaring job title), with wife Mallin D. Førland
01 June 1899 death of Tormod in Haugesund in Haugesund:
skibsreder Thormod Thormodsen Førland, gift (married)
born 1858 in Tysvær, address Strandegaden
cause of death is noted
Source: Rogaland county, Haugesund in Haugesund, Parish register (official) nr. A 5 (1891-1903), Death and burial records 1899, page 196. #33
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:NBN:no-a1450-kb20060802020575.jpg
Below, death of Tormod's wife Malene Serine Danielsdatter:
Døde i Haugesund 1930-1935 ( = Death Records in Haugesund 1930-1935)
Died 1933, skibsførersenke Malene Serine Førland, born 1858 in Tysvær,
skibsf. Tormod Andreas Førland + 30/5 1899 (I believe this would be Tormod's date of death?)
bustad (home address) Strandgt. 51
"skibsfører" is a job title having to do with ships, the sea; enke = widow
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=5&filnamn=haud1930&gardpostnr=404&personpostnr=404#nedre
1910 Norway Census
Strandgate 91 in Haugesund kjøpstad
- all the children born in Haugesund
Malene Førland born 30.07.1860 in Tysvær Ptg, widow, Skibsrederi & Huseier
Tormod Reinert Førland born 29.11.1884, Kemisk tekniker
Dagmar Josefine Førland born 27.03.1888, Ft. tjenestepike
Malene Førland born 29.03.1891
Johanne Sofie Førland born 30.06.1896
Tormod Andreas Førland born 23.10.1898
Tormod's death (presumably 30 May 1899) would be a heavy burden on Malene.
His son Tormod Reinert Førland (occupation Kemisk tekniker in 1910 census) seems to have emigrated to the USA in 1923, where his occupation was "IngeniØr", and and died 1937. See below.
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=4&filnamn=STAV&gardpostnr=3820&personpostnr=3820#nedre
Norway Burial Index (from DIS-Norge, indexed on Ancestry.com)
Tormod Reinert Førland
Death: 01 Nov 1937
Burial: Haugesund, Rogaland, Norway
New York, New York Death Index (on Ancestry)
NAME: Tormod R Forland
BIRTH: abt 1885
DEATH: 1 Nov 1937 - Kings county, New York
So here we have a convergence of your two families (your dad's mother and father). Osmund Tormodsen Forland's nephew is in or near Brooklyn, where Marthin Christiansen's siblings live at the same time.
Norway Burial Index has additional burials that are likely of interest. |
Edited by - JaneC on 21/02/2014 01:11:26 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2014 : 01:31:31
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quote:
Originally posted by lindachristiansen
That is soooooo cool about the Ragna. Thanks Jane. I really do not want to go to work now. I'd rather stay right here and follow through with all this information. Thanks everyone!
Yes, fun about Ragna! Finally now, after all this, a family tree online shows up for Osmund. The forum hasn't researched all this, but according to the family tree, Tormod Anderson's mother Ranveg had a grandmother Rannveg Gudmundsdatter born 1738 at Bakkevik, Nedstrand, Rogaland, Norway. If that's right, the name has continued even further back. This follows traditional Norwegian naming practice, which was to name a couple's first born children after his parents, and second born children after hers. You can see that Osmund's name continues back as well. (Should be verified with own research.)
http://norwayrelatives.com/family/hourglass.php?show_full=1&pid=I8699&generations=5&box_width=100
And another online tree:
http://www.hellesland.com/getperson.php?personID=I26228&tree=T1
Same tree in a 6-generation view:
http://www.hellesland.com/pedigree.php?personID=I26228&tree=T1&parentset=0&display=standard&generations=6
Historic Chicago city directories, maps, and more:
http://www.chicagoancestors.org/#tab-tools
1875 Norway Census - Osmund is NOT with the family
at øvre Førland farm, Tysvær prestegjeld, Rogaland, Norway
** everyone born in Tysver S., Tysver Prgj.
Thormod Andersen b 1822, occupation Gaardbruger og Selveier
Johanne Osmundsdatter b 1828
Thormod Thormodsen b 1858
Soffie Thormodsdatter b 1862
Ranveg Thormodsdatter b 1866
Laurits Thormodsen b 1871
with
Anders Thormodsen b 1846, occupation Jungmand - residence status is "f" which I think means he's not living here
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01052258001221
Previous posts updated as information came in. |
Edited by - JaneC on 14/02/2014 06:36:29 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 13/02/2014 : 16:03:57
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Actually, I don't think the various dates of arrival in US are contradictory at all.
1900 - 1887
1910 -
1920 - 1872
1930 -1877
If he is a sailor, he could have had many comings and goings, and depending on how the question is phrased might lead to different responses. His name in the 1872 record is Osmund Thormodsen Førland. There could be other Osmund Thormodsen but with the addition of Førland and his age, maybe not so many. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 17/02/2014 : 02:21:07
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Agreed.
Now about Osmond's brother Tormod (a seaman of some type who died ca 1899). As posted, he had a son Tormod Reinert Førland (1884-1937) who was born in 1884 in Norway (Haugesund I think it was) and died 01 Nov 1937 in Kings county, New York; burial in Haugesund, Rogaland, Norway. I am not informed about job titles in Norwegian, but it seemed to me that the occupations stated for him would maybe make him a chemical engineer or something like it. (In 1910 census his occupation was Kemisk tekniker; on his emigration 1923 to USA his occupation was IngeniØr.)
According to the biography on the following link, a Tormod Reinert Førland married a Berta Josefine Dittmar (1894–1974) and they had a son Tormod Førland (1920-1995) born 06 June 1920 Høyland (nå Sandnes), Rogaland and died 10 November 1995 in Trondheim. Apparently this Tormod married Katrine (“Tine”) Seip (22.8.1922–24.9.1998), daughter of professor Didrik Arup Seip (1884–1963) and Johanne Karoline Louise Remmer (1892–1966). (see link) The biography on the link says Tormod Førland b 1920 was a chemist, one of Norway's foremost researchers (in physical chemistry / organic chemistry?) and his work is characterized by is originality and innovation. Also a professor, he was also a keen mentor who inspired his students and many of his research ideas could be continued by them. (NOTE: I don't speak Norwegian: I am trying to understand the text by using an online translator). He (taught?) at the Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pennsylvania State University, the University of Maryland, Norwegian University of Science and Technology, the University of East Africa, among others. His wife was also a chemist and professor who was an honorary doctor (held an honorary doctorate?) at the University of North East China. [THIS needs checking and rewriting; use the links, not my summary, for info]
SOURCE, Norsk Biografisk Leksikon
LINK:
http://nbl.snl.no/Tormod_F%C3%B8rland
Tormod Førland on Wikipedia:
http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tormod_F%C3%B8rland
A better bio here:
http://www.researchbooks.org/8251916348/IRREVERSIBLE-THERMODYNAMICS-THEORY-APPLICATIONS/
More biographical material:
http://www.ntnu.no/ub/spesialsamlingene/tekhist/tek13/Tek_13.pdf
The following book would be fun to read if one knew Norwegian: Tormod Førland 60 år. A collection of Papers Dedicated to professor Tormod Førland on his 60th Birthday, edited by S. Kjelstrup Ratkje and B. Hafskjold, eds., Institutt for fysikalsk kjemi og uorganisk kjemi, Norges Tekniske Høgskole, Trondheim, NTH, 1981
Or for a little more light reading, you might try Irreversible Thermodynamics: Theory and Applications by Katrine Seip Forland, Tormod Forland, and Signe Kjelstrup.
http://www.amazon.com/Irreversible-Thermodynamics-Katrine-Seip-Forland/dp/8251916348
Or how about Alkali Glass as Electrodes at Elevated Temperatures or Aluminium-Oxygen Containing Species in Fluoride Melts or Measurements of Phase Equilibria in the Aluminium-Aluminium Sulfide System.
The following person might be a member of (descendant of) this family:
http://www.finnfirma.no/personer/Dagmar-Seip-F%C3%B8rland/1.html |
Edited by - JaneC on 19/02/2014 21:06:42 |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 17:55:08
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| Just a quick note to let everyone know, That I haven't fallen off the face of the earth, just trying to prepare for tax time (it never ends). Actually, a quick note here. My cousin Pam and I have been sharing some info. She came across two letters from Tormud Forland in Norway. She remembers him and his wife coming to America in 92 or 94 I think. They went to visit my Uncle Ray Forland and his wife Anne, and Pam and her father went to meet them. The letters concern a trip that Pam and her father had planned around 2001 that never took place. The letters were dated August 10, 2001. He gave some information in that letter. He is the grandson of Osmund's Brother Tormod, and the letter writer is the Tormod who is a chemist. Pam sent me photocopies of the covers of three books that my grandmother had. She said they were some kind of science books and written in Norwegian. As soon as I get the time, I will check out the links above. How are you doing with the English translation? We tried to make contact (or Pam did) with Tormod, as he gave his email address in the letter. She just sent it Monday. We don't even know if he is still alive. Fun. Thanks everyone |
Linda Christiansen |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 18:12:01
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| Of course, the Tormod of the Letters, is probably the son of the Tormod in your info Jane. As that Tormod was no longer alive when these letters were written. |
Linda Christiansen |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 18:18:08
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Interesting! Yes, great-grandson. Your story confirms we found the right family (which we already knew, but it's wonderful to have the connection turn up between living people you know to be your family) Yay!
* Tormod Andreas Førland (ca 1857-1899) seafarer -- (Osmund's brother)
son is
* Tormod Reinert Førland (1884-1937) chemist?, lived for some time in USA -- (Ragna's first cousin)
son is
* Tormod (Ernst Dittmar) Førland (1920-1995) - the chemist, professor, and author of science books, partnered with wife Katrine Seip (1922-1998), lived in USA and Norway and other places -- (Ragna's first cousin once removed)
son is
* Tormod of the letters. I also made a link to another possible child in previous post (Dagmar). A person with same name (Dagmar's full name) is mentioned here as contributing to a Seip family history, maybe the same person, and maybe in this family and maybe interested in family history. (?)
http://www.kopervikogomegnhistorielag.no/artikler/artikler/327-den-gamle-prestegarden
Thanks for stopping by and please come back if you have more questions. It's been fun working on this. |
Edited by - JaneC on 19/02/2014 21:01:49 |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 18:19:09
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| Toril Forland, the Downhill skier, of the 72 Olympics is also related somehow. |
Linda Christiansen |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 20:02:44
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I am wondering if the "Chemist" Forland is the correct Forland. The Forland that wrote the letters dated March and August 2001 claimed to be the grandson, not the great grandson of Osmund's brother Tormod. Also, the death record that you gave me and the same record that popped up on Ancestry said his middle name was Reinert. Don't know where that middle name came from. Our Tormod was a scientist of some kind - looks like physics and published 3 books which were in the possession of my grandmother. Just looked at the email that Pam sent picturing them and they are as follows:
1. Fyskk og Kjemi for Framhadsskolen, copywrite - Oslo 1957, 2. Folkeskolens Naturlacre Fysikk og kjemi,, copywrite - Oslo 1960, and 3. Laerebok For Sykepleiere, 9 Kjemi og fysikk, copywrite - Oslo 1960. The publisher for these books Fabritius & Sonners Forlag. Pam thinks that he is the father of Toril Forland. |
Linda Christiansen |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 21:25:55
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Well Linda you have four generations of Tormod Forland going on here, and it's confusing! We have to consider the dates of their lifespan when referring to them. I outlined the lineage in my last post. From the evidence we've found so far, it seems the line goes as follows.
Osmund's brother was 1) Tormod Andreas Førland (ca 1857-1899), who was the father of 2) Tormod Reinert Førland (1884-1937).
2) Tormod Reinert Førland (1884-1937) was the father of the chemist 3) Tormod Førland (1920-1995). I drew a tentative conclusion of this, based on an online biography, not on genealogy research - and then your family story confirmed it.
We didn't research who are the children of the chemist 3) Tormod Førland (1920-1995).
In 2001 your family member had a letter from someone named 4) Tormod Forland. I don't know who wrote that letter, obviously.
You stated, "He is the grandson of Osmund's Brother Tormod, and the letter writer is the Tormod who is a chemist."
"He is the grandson" ... is probably a mistake on his part. He is probably a great-grandson.
"the letter writer is the Tormod who is a chemist." This is a mistake on your part.
The books you mention were most likely written by the chemist Tormod Førland (1920-1995).
People make mistakes all the time about relationships and degrees of relationship. That's very natural. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. Just ask him.
Does that help?
P.S. I think the chemist's middle names are Ernst Dittmar (if so he's Tormod Ernst Dittmar Førland 1920-1995). I only saw one reference to that being his name, so I'm a little iffy on that. |
Edited by - JaneC on 19/02/2014 23:10:16 |
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lindachristiansen
Junior member
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 21:57:51
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| But the writer of the letter in 2001 said to my Uncle Mel (my father's brother) "Your grandfather Osmund and my grandfather Tormod "were born on the Forland Farm. That is a direct quote, and he was not a chemist. Those books were obviously about physics (Fysikks). Now I have no doubt that they could be related, but there are many Forlands. This Forland's wife was named Bodil. Now This Tormod Could be the brother of the Chemist Forland? I don't know, but something here is not adding up. |
Linda Christiansen |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2014 : 22:06:12
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| Say again please? Need to know who is the letter writer before we can decide his lineage. |
Edited by - JaneC on 20/02/2014 04:29:13 |
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Information on Marthin Christiansen
