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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
 Posted - 25/02/2014 : 04:48:38
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Thanks again. I'm not sure I understand exactly what JKMarler found for the second candidate ( on the Albion ). But it may just be due to fatigue and being sick today. I will reread it tomorrow.
I did just hear back from my cousin and aunt, however. My aunt said her grandfather John/Jurgen spoke with a southern New Orleans accent (one of my questions to her was whether he had a Norwegian accent, just to rule out the posibility that she and my mom were correct about him coming directly from Norway). Unforunately she doesn't remember his middle name.
The best bet of course, would be to go down there and visit the cemetary and possible church records if they're still in exstence. I hope to be able to do that one day soon. |
Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
Edited by - BethanyJohannsen on 25/02/2014 04:55:50 |
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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2014 : 04:54:03
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| One question: Do you think it is possible for my Norwegian ancestor to have used either Johnson or Johannsen (of any spelling) on the ship passenger list? If his name was Johannsen originally and he changed it, would that have happened on board the ship or after arriving in the U.S.? I am guessing after.....but maybe you have a better idea. |
Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2014 : 08:03:03
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| The issue with the Albion candidate is that we have "dueling experts" on Johannes' patronymic name. You'd have to see the original list yourself to resolve. If he were truly an Olson vs Johannsen that would change radically who you are looking for. The reason for looking for other folks who had the patronymic Johannesen on the ship was to generate an origin parish of potential siblings. Those parishes named are on the west coast of Norway. Knowing the parish is essential in further research. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2014 : 15:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Kåarto
Possible candidates for John Johannsen born in Norway between 1828-1832
Firstname John, Jon, Joen, Johan; Johannes.
Order; Born/bap - Parents - Parish - County.
- April 3. 1830, Johannes Johnsen and Ingeborg Pedersdatter, Eid, Sogn & Fjordane
- June 6. 1830, Johannes Sivertsen and Ane Johnsdatter, Fræna, Møre & Romsdal
- Feb. 20. 1830, Johannes Jacobsen and Mari Olsdatter, Romedal, Hedmark
- March 14. 1830, Johannes Jacobsen and Mari Olsdatter, Romedal, Hedmark
- Feb. 20. 1830, Johannes Olsen and Gro Johnsdatter, Attraa, Telemark
- Jan. 17. 1829; Johannes Østensen and Anne Johnnesdatter , Askvoll, Sogn & Fjordane
- Dec. 30. 1832 (bap) Johannes Østensen and Anne Johnsdatter, Askvoll, Sogn & Fjordane
- Feb. 25. 1829, Johannes Bjørnsen and Ingeborg Thorsdatter, Dypvåg, Aust-Agder
- feb. 26. 1831, Johannes Olsen and Maren Jensdatter, Hamarøy, Nordland
- April 15. 1831 Johannes Tørrisen and Ingeborg Johnsdatter, Skånevik, Hordaland
- August 24. 1829, Johannes Arntsen and Anne Pedersdatter, Verran, Nord-Trøndelag
- Sept. 20. 1831, Johannes Johnsen and Martha Lisbeth Rasmusdatter, Haugesund, Rogaland
- July 17. 1831 (bap) Johannes Olsen and Maren Endresdatter, Tysvær, Rogaland
- Oct. 7. 1829, Johannes Johannesen and Gonne Olsdatter, Hedmark (county)
- Jan. 5. 1829, Johannes Olsen and Eli Johnsdatter, Fjeldberg, Hordaland
- Dec. 29. 1828, John Johannesen and Berit Johnsdatter, Kvernes, Møre & Romsdal
- March 18. 1831, Johannes Johnsen and Inger Trondsdatter, Holla, Telemark
- Mai 5. 1828, Johannes Johnsen and Berith Olsdatter, Ålen, Sør-Trøndelag
- June 8. 1828, Johannes Larsen and Brithe Johnsdatter, Haus, Hordaland
- June 12. 1828, Johannes Johnsen and Martha Johansdatter, Haus, Hordaland
- Nov. 4. 1832 (bap) Johannes Jensen and Margrethe Andersdatter, Korskirken, Bergen, Hordaland
Kåre
I haven't much to offer - the place name Haus, Hordaland is the only overlap between the Albion passengers and Kåre's list (passenger Knud Johannesen Fosmarken of Haus, Hordaland, on the Albion in 1845). Digitalarkivet gives the place name "Haus" as "Hougs" in 1801 (if I'm reading that right):
Fosmarken gard, Brudvig sokn, Hougs prestegjeld, Søndre Bergenhuus amt. Census on Fosmarken in 1801, long before John was born:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=f18011250&gardpostnr=105&merk=105#ovre
Here's an Ole Johan born to Johannes Ols. and Martha Johannesdtr in Haus in 1828:
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=19&filnamn=dp12501827&gardpostnr=111&personpostnr=331&merk=331#ovre
Sources:
Marriage record and records of children's births (online transcriptions only) no birth year or place of origin; name John Johnson
1870 US census: John Johnson age 47, born about 1823 in Ireland
1880 US census: John Johnson age 48, born about 1832 in Denmark
1882 death notice in newspaper: John Johauusenn, age 52," so born about 1830
Additional sources show two of the children using name "Johannsen."
If this is the right John for Bethany's Jurgen/John father, then another source is the family story, that he came from Norway.
Jurgen/John in 1910, 1920, 1930 US census, father listed as b Norway
Bethany, you asked about "John Johnson 1832-1880" on the Ritzmann family tree on Ancestry. The John senior in the 1880 census posted here (on page 6) is the same as the John in the 1880 census posted on the Ritzmann tree -- because it's the same census cited. Whether or not the Ritzmann tree cited the right 1880 census for the RItzmann John is a trickier question, but definitely the tree and this thread both use the same 1880 census as a source.
The 1880 census says John was born about 1832 in Denmark, and that matches the birth information on the Ritzmann tree. The 1880 census is the only source the Ritzmann tree has cited, so it is just listing the birth info as stated in the census - not what reality is. Remember you said your mother's name was mangled in a record? If someone only had that one record for her, and knew nothing else about her, then the mangled version is the way her name would be entered. ** It's possible the tree creator has done further research but it is not entered online so might be worthwhile to write to him/her.
** And by the way, entering the mangled version of the name reminds us that a fact is only as good as its sources. One can say, for example, "According to the 1940 census her name is Mangled Johannsen." That would be correct. It is true that that record lists her that way. It is not true that this is her actual name. The Ritzmann tree is saying, "According to the 1880 census, John was born in 1832 in Denmark." It is true that the 1880 census lists him that way. It is (probably) not correct that he was born in that year and in that place. The Ritzmann tree just doesn't have enough information to go on. It's a work in progress.
 For the moment would be good to know who are the parents of Jurgen/John? Would be great to have a record of "your" Jurgen/John confirming Caroline Krauser+ John Johnsen senior as parents. Jurgen/John's marriage or death record might list his parents' names, and you are pursuing those (crossing fingers for you!). |
Edited by - JaneC on 25/02/2014 16:54:37 |
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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 26/02/2014 : 18:03:59
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| Thanks JaneC. That was a great explanation. Yes, it would be a relief to know who John/Jurgen's parents were. That is my aim, no matter how long it takes. And it should hopefully clear up all the ambiguity. I will post again as soon as I have any new info! |
Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
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Johannsen - male born 1830 Norway died 1882 Louisi
