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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 22/02/2014 : 05:14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by BethanyJohannsen
The birth place change (Ireland ) is odd.
Maybe less odd than you think. I haven't seen the writing of the name Ireland in this case but other experience leads me to tell you that when people from Iceland are recorded in US censuses the OCR reading of it sometimes becomes Ireland and for a number of censuses if Iceland was recorded as a birthplace it was lined out and replaced with Denmark. Iceland had a "client" relationship with Denmark similar to Norway's. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2014 : 05:26:34
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| I looked at the original 1870 US Census and the country is Ireland. Hard to explain but both John and Caroline are listed as Ireland, However the family above John and Caroline who are named O'Hara are listed as Ireland, so who knows how John and Caroline got the Ireland label, Maybe the census taker just assigned the next family in line to Ireland as well He also gave young John the name spelled as Jno. |
Edited by - AntonH on 22/02/2014 05:29:57 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2014 : 05:48:00
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| Jno. is an old tyme abbreviation of John or Johnathan. |
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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2014 : 06:20:21
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Well it's true there are a lot of spelling inconsistencies on census reports. They butchered my mom's name on one of them and mispelled a few others.
I was just looking at maps of Europe. As late as 1790 and 1810 Denmark and Norway were labeled together. Even though this ancestor was born later (1832) maybe his parents still thought of Norway as part of Denmark. I don't know......just grasping at straws, I guess. But there was the name return to Johannsen, so maybe the 1920,1930 and 1940 census reports listing Norway as place of origin, was also part of John/Jurgen's attempt at correcting his true identity. |
Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2014 : 23:13:33
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Hi Bethany, do you have any recollections of stories by your grandfather Johannsen (or his wife, your grandmother), or by the Johannsen siblings of your grandfather, that referred to their aunts, uncles, and first cousins in New Orleans? Did Ernst have an uncle Theodore, an uncle August, or an aunt Mary Caballero? Or an uncle George Brinkman? Any photos in the family archives with those names mysteriously written on them?
Quick comment about the following:
> "Even though this ancestor was born later (1832) maybe his parents still thought of Norway as part of Denmark." <
My guess is the 1880 census that says John Johnson was b in Denmark shows an error in the census (if he wasn't), rather than confused historical thinking on the part of John. Correct me if I'm wrong - anyone - but my impression is that Norwegians always thought of themselves as Norwegians. One possible scenario: the census taker hears a foreign language spoken in the house, and sounds like Danish to him. Who knows? The 1870 says John - clearly the same John - was born in Ireland. The 1870 and 1880 census vary in his age - he only ages 1 year in those 10 years, from age 47 to age 48. Thus we have just cause to say there are errors in the census, rather than in his perceptions. That said, we don't know for sure where he's from, but if he's your ancestor (and we think he is), then he is highly likely from Norway.
You said your grandfather was a Mason? I haven't found the link between the Freemasons and the Druids, but they do seem to be the same type of organization, and the two come up together in discussions. Your grrandfather being a Mason kind of (kind of) links your family to the "candidate" family in New Orleans.
Not sure about the brother August Johnson born circa 1882 (brother of John jr), living with widowed mother and siblings in the 1900 census posted previously. He could be the father in the following record.
BIRTH
12/21/1901
Ida Johnson, father August [Johnson], mother Rosa Beecher
Orleans Parish Birth Index Vol 124, page 235
Not finding their marriage here:
http://www.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/marriage-gi.htm
* posted earlier, an August K Johnson died 10 Oct 1953 age 71 years [born about 1882] buried Greenwood Cemetery; Find-a-Grave has him August Karl Johnson
'Nother question. Didn't find a birth record yet for Theodore Johnson, born about 1871. DID find a birth record for Christian Johnson born 1871 to John Johnson and Caroline Krauser (posted earlier). So, is that Theodore? And if so, is "Theodore L" a misreading of "Theodore C"?
AND a Christian is born to same parents in 1875, with a possible death of the latter (a 3-year-old Christian Johnson who died 1878, mentioned previously). |
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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 22/02/2014 : 23:25:13
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Hi JaneC,
I'm afraid I don't have many stories......a few. My grandmother (Evelyn Lenore Clark Johannsen) died when I was only 8-9 months old.
My grandfather didn't say too much and died when I was a kid.. I visited my (grand) Aunt Laura Johannsen regularly, so she is the one I remember the most. She told me stories about the family, but I was young so don't remember many details.
Yes, my mom said someone was a Mason. I think she was referring to either my grandfather (Ernest) , or less possibly my great grandfather (John/Jurgen). Of course being a secret society, she didn't get to learn much about it.
Theodore and one of the Christians being so close in age, made me wonder if they might have been twins, and Christian died but Theodore did not. It is curious.
Well I am waiting to hear from my cousin. I will post any new information. In the mean time, we are going through boxes of old family photos and memorabilia in hopes of finding some more clues.
By the way, I tried searching for immigration ship passenger lists for a few hours last night. I did not find John Johnson or Caroline Krauser, even though for Caroline we know which year she emigrated. Is there a recommended website for this?
Thanks and have a great rest of the weekend! |
Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
Edited by - BethanyJohannsen on 22/02/2014 23:26:42 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2014 : 01:34:37
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Bremen was heavily bombed during WWII, probably some records lost:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Bremen_in_World_War_II
There is only a small window of time in the mid 1860s when the police lists for people leaving Norway were just beginning, the first date about 1866 and John has to be in New Orleans by 1868 to get married. Passenger lists (a different type of record) were required to be filed at the port in US where the ship first landed. It might not be where the passengers think they're going to, nor where they got off.
Some early voyages' passenger lists have been transcribed and are searchable at norwayheritage on the main page. For instance I just put in, in the search engine, first name jo and last name johan and found 237 possibles. You would have to do a series of manual eliminations after that. Some could be eliminated because they were female (Johanne, Josephine, Jonetha, etc.) and some could be eliminated because the ship sailed after the absolute date John Johannsen sr came here (marriage date New Orleans), others could be eliminated because their age doesn't match a birthyear of 1830 + /- 2 years or 5 years etc. With a bit of luck, perhaps there would be information in the entries to point to possible origin point in Norway. I
Denmark's official emigration lists were begun about 1869 and have a search engine. But the date is after when it's needed for your guy.
Most Norwegians will have gone through Quebec / Canada then into US. But there are New Orleans passenger lists at Ancestry. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 23/02/2014 15:34:08 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2014 : 02:57:17
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Here is a Martin Krauser in 1894 Living about 4 miles from the area that included Eads Street.
U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989
Name: Martin Krauser
Residence Year: 1894
Street address: 477X Lafayette
Residence Place: New Orleans, Louisiana
Occupation: Laborer
Publication Title: New Orleans, Louisiana, City Directory, 1894.
And in 1877
U.S. City Directories, 1821-1989
Name: Martin Krauser
Residence Year: 1877
Residence Place: New Orleans, Louisiana
Occupation: Driver
Publication Title: New Orleans, Louisiana, City Directory, 1877
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Edited by - AntonH on 23/02/2014 03:08:19 |
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Kċarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2014 : 10:58:21
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quote:
Originally posted by BethanyJohannsen
I was just looking at maps of Europe. As late as 1790 and 1810 Denmark and Norway were labeled together. Even though this ancestor was born later (1832) maybe his parents still thought of Norway as part of Denmark. I don't know......just grasping at straws, I guess. .
Sorry, wish you were right, but your grasping at straws is a dead en.
Norway was in a union with Denmark from 1380-1814.
In 1814 after the Napoleon wars Norway was forced into i personal union with Sweden by those days super-powers which lasted to June 7. 1905.
On Mai 17. this year "Norges Grunnlov" The Constitution of Norway celebrates 200 years Anniversary.
Kċre |
Edited by - Kċarto on 23/02/2014 12:39:28 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/02/2014 : 21:58:21
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We don't know when John Johannesen sr arrived in Louisiana or New Orleans. Here from HeritageQuest are all the Norway-born heads of household in the 1860 census. All of those who have a J starting first name or a J starting last name bolded. Interesting there is a Christian Johnson...:
Surname Given Name Age Sex Race Birthplace State County Location Year
ALBERTSON JOHN 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
AMUND LARS 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
BALLY GEORGE 27 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
BATTY GEORGE 32 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 9-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
BERGH MARTIN 21 M W NORW LA EAST BATON ROUGE BATON ROUGE 1860
BERNARD PETER 29 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
BRINCK J P 36 M W NORW LA CADDO SHREVEPORT 1860
BROWN CHARLES 33 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
BROWN CHRISTIAN 29 M W NORW LA PLAQUEMINES BALISE P O 1860
BROWN CHS 31 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 5-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
BYE PAULINE 16 F W NORW LA CADDO SHREVEPORT 1860
CARSON EDWARD 35 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
EMERSON JOHN 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
FOSTER PETER 37 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 1-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
FUGLAR C H 32 M W NORW LA CATAHOULA TRINITY 1860
GARNER HENRY 27 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
GHERKEN E G 32 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 11-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
GONELSON JOHN 38 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 1-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HANSON ANDREW 28 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HANSON MARTIN 35 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 11-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HEISS GASTAVE 20 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 1-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HENRY AUG 35 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HOWARD WM 38 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HOWE JNO 19 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 6-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HUNT WM 52 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
HURST L W 24 M W NORW LA ST TAMMANY COVINGTON P O 1860
JOHNSON CHAS 46 M W NORW LA FRANKLIN WINNSBORO P O 1860
JOHNSON CHRISTIAN 52 M W NORW LA JEFFERSON JEFFERSON 1860
JOHNSON JAMES 36 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
JOHNSON JOHN 42 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 3-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
JOHNSON L 24 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 9-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
JOHNSON O A 35 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 11-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
JOHNSON STAFORD 20 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
JOHNSON TOBIAS 26 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
JOHNSON W 20 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 6-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
JOHNSTON J E 31 M W NORW LA MADISON DALLAS P O 1860
JOOCE JOHN 32 M W NORW LA PLAQUEMINES BALISE P O 1860
LEWIS EDWIN 36 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 1-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
MECKALD H E 34 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 10-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
MILLER JACOB 48 M W NORW LA JEFFERSON JEFFERSON P O 1860
MINAGH ALQUEST 26 M W NORW LA PLAQUEMINES BALISE P O 1860
NELSON F 29 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 6-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
NELSON J 25 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
NELSON THOMAS F 44 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
NORWAY AND 56 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 11-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
ORVALD J 23 M W NORW LA RAPIDES ALEXANDRIA 1860
PETERSON PETER 36 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 3-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
RASTORS OLENA 28 F W NORW LA ORLEANS 10-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
ROLINSON WILLIAM 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
ROSTA COLINA 60 F W NORW LA ORLEANS 11-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
SLAWSON CHARLES 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 5-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
SMITH ANDREW 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
SMITH JOHN 40 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
SMITZ NICHOLAS 23 M W NORW LA ORLEANS ALGIERS 1860
STEPHENS THOMAS 52 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 1-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
SWENZEN CHARLES C 32 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 2-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
TAYLOR M 70 F W NORW LA ORLEANS 7-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
THOMPSON P 25 M W NORW LA ST TAMMANY MADISONVILLE P O 1860
TRUMPY J 52 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 8-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
WANG GEO 30 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 11-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
WANG SUSAN 53 F W NORW LA ORLEANS 10-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
WILLIAMS JULIUS 49 M W NORW LA PLAQUEMINES BURAS SETTLEMENT 1860
WILSON JOHN 37 M W NORW LA ORLEANS 3-WD NEW ORLEANS 1860
WILSON THOMAS 28 M W NORW LA PLAQUEMINES BALISE P O 1860
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Edited by - jkmarler on 23/02/2014 21:59:41 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2014 : 00:38:12
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The Times-Picayune carried column titled "Vital Statistics" for a long time time. This is from Thursday, 24 Aug 1882, pg 2 (column not recorded)
Vital Statistics
Deaths
"John Johauusenn, 52 years, Marigny between Roman and Derbigny"
A typo led to his name not being found.... |
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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2014 : 00:47:03
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Great find! Yes, this must be John Johannsen born 1830 died 1882, that I had originally guessed might be my ancestor.
Not sure what to make of him and John Johnson now (1832-1880).
Marigny street is interesting. |
Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2014 : 02:01:37
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Great find Jackie.
Hi Bethany, Quick comment. At the moment we don't know why the family tree on Ancestry.com gives those dates for John Johnson. I think those are just approximate dates. I didn't see any sources for birth or death posted, or am I remembering that wrong?
Map of New Orleans ca 1908
http://www.usgwarchives.net/la/orleans/images/no1908.jpg
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Edited by - JaneC on 24/02/2014 02:33:42 |
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BethanyJohannsen
Junior member
Canada
36 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2014 : 03:31:05
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Great map! That's helpful that they list the churches in existance at the time.
So are you saying that John Johnson of 1832-1880 and John Johannsen 1830-1882 could be the same person?
I have been looking through ship passenger records for the past few hours, using the search "Jo" and "johann" as JKMarler suggested. There are a lot of possibilities, but two using Johannsen spelled correctly, stand out:
1. J.Johannsen age 16 ship Olah Kyrre in 1846
Departed Bergen May 7 Arrived New York June 22
Teen travelled with whole family (parents and three younger siblings)
I tried locating this family on Ancestry, to see where they settled, but did not find them.
2. Johannes Johannsen age 15 yr. 2 mo. On ship Brig Albion in 1845
Departed Bergen Apr. 30 Arrived New York July 3
May have been travelling alone.
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Researching my Norwegian ancestors... |
Edited by - BethanyJohannsen on 24/02/2014 03:32:25 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 24/02/2014 : 05:28:06
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In Gerhard Naeseth's Norwegian Immigrants to the United States, A Biographical Directory 1825-1850 Volume 2 1844-1846, pg 209 on Olaf Kjerre sic in 1846, the person Identified as J Johannesson age 16 m is identified as:
Johannes Johannessen Lie b. 15 Nov 1830 [Vik, Sogn og Fjordane] d. 1912. Used Lee as surname in America. m. 1861 Ingeborg Ivarsdatter Rislĝv, 5 known children. Both Johannes and Ingeborg are bured in Aspelund Cemetery, Goodhue county, Minnesota.
Volume 2, 1845 Albion the person identified on norwayheritage as Johannes Johannsen 15 is identified as Johannes Olsen, 15 and nothing further on him.
Count on the Albion passengers identified points of origin:
Haus, Hordaland 1 named Knud Johannesen Fosmarken
Hosanger, Hordaland 3 one of whom is Ole Johannesen Dahle
Leikanger, Sogn og Fjordane 8 including Hans Johanneson Grinde
and Turi Johannesen
Samnanger, Hordaland 4
Vik, Sogn og Fjordane 51
Unidentified in U.S. records and point of origin in Norway Johannes Olson 15 and Anne Johannesen 27 |
Edited by - jkmarler on 24/02/2014 13:27:21 |
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Johannsen - male born 1830 Norway died 1882 Louisi
