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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 20/10/2015 : 19:34:27
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Below, a little summary of the known Karen.
02 Dec 1857 Marriage * Karen Larsdtr age 23 (born about 1834), father L. Mikelsen
1865 Norway Census, Hamar i Vang * Karen Larsdatter age 31 (b 1834)
11 Nov 1881 Emigration * Karen Lars. age 47 Heimstad Ringsaker (born about 1834)
1885 Traill county, North Dakota * Karen Engstad age 49 (born about 1836)
1895 MN State Census * Karen Engestad age 60 (born about 1835)
1900 US Census * Karen Eugestad age 64, born Sep 1835, married 1857, to USA 1881
*** Even died 1902
1905 US Census * Karen Paulson, age 69 (b about 1836)
1910 US Census * Karen Engestad age 74 (born about 1836)
Tombstone: Karen S Paulson 1835-1911
***
Just thought I'd check - looks like the birth year for Karen is relatively consistent (though that proves nothing).
***
1911 Death Record *
Caroline Engelstad
Widow
Birth Date: --?-- September --?--
Birth Place: Norway
Father: Lars --?--
Mother: Enger LARSDR
Death Date: 08 Nov 1911
Age at Death: --?--
Death place: Rockbury Township, Pennington county, Minnesota
Burial: Greenwood Cemetery, Thief River Falls, Pennington, Minnesota (Karen first of family to be buried here)
Informant: Mrs. P. Engelstad
***
1885 Hillsboro, Traill, North Dakota
Even P. Engstad 65
Karen Engstad 49
Lizzie Engstad 23
Lena Engstad 21
Hans Engstad 15
Trulover (Karen wedding): Even Larsen Steenberg (another name for the pot) |
Edited by - JaneC on 21/10/2015 00:33:29 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2015 : 21:43:53
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Karen's obit published in the Thief River Falls newspaper gives her age as 76 years and that she has lived with her son P. Engelstad and in the area for 25 years.
Searchable at old fulton site. |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2015 : 22:18:35
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The Ancestry.com data base for Norwegian Marriages has these two ladies named Karen Larsdatter married about the same time. One in Ringsaker, probably the one listed on page 3 as number 33 and the second the Karen Larsdatter who married Even Paulsen in Vang.
Name: Karen Larsdr
[Karen Mikkelsen]
Gender: Female
Age: 26
Birth Date: 1830
Marriage Date: 3 apr 1856
Marriage Place: Ringsaker, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Lars Mikkelsen
Spouse: Jens Larsen
FHL Film Number: 307212
Reference ID: bk 1
See number 20, http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8843&idx_id=8843&uid=ny&idx_side=-308
Name: Karen Larsdr
[Karen Mikelsen]
Gender: Female
Age: 23
Birth Date: 1834
Marriage Date: 2 des 1857 (2 Dec 1857)
Marriage Place: Vang, Hedmark, Norway
Father: Lars Mikelsen
Spouse: Even Paulsen
FHL Film Number: 307211
Reference ID: 2:1FGZDQ0 |
Edited by - AntonH on 20/10/2015 22:23:23 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2015 : 22:56:08
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In 1863 a Lars Larsen of Suderud died. He was 65 years old. See number 32.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=1496&idx_id=1496&uid=ny&idx_side=-228
Born abt 1898. His marriage to Inge Halvorsdatter came when he was 27 or born abt 1896. Not exact but close.
I did not find any death record for a Lars Mikkelsen between 1857 when Karen Larsdatter married Even Paulsen and 1865 when her mother was listed as a widow in the 1865 Census. |
Edited by - AntonH on 20/10/2015 23:05:07 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 20/10/2015 : 23:56:01
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1857 * Karen b ca 1834 gets married as Karen Larsdatter, Suderud.
1863 * Lars Larsen b ca 1798 dies 1863 as Føderaadsmand of Suderud.
1865 * Inge Halvorsdatter is living at Suderud as Føderaadskone (sp?) of Suderud
1834 * a Lars Larsen and Inge Halvorsdatter at Stokseth Ødegaard had a daughter Karen.
No Karen or Caroline found so far, b mid 1830s in Vang, has a father listed as Lars Mikkelsen.
The forum seems to be retracing the steps of the author of Cheryl's book, whether the author followed family stories or followed the research.
As I understand it, the book Cheryl has does not fully name Karen's parents; calls them Lars Suderud and Inge.
Wouldn't it be great if the book author used family stories to supply that first residence of Ødegaard, rather than simply found the same as us in research. Would be great to know the book's sources.
Begins to seem as if father "L. Mikkelsen" is a mistake, but if so why? Lars Larsen was still living. Also to accept that, Karen death record mother, Enger Larsd., has to be counted as an error as well. Perhaps it's a series of unfortunate mistakes.
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Edited by - JaneC on 21/10/2015 17:17:27 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2015 : 00:39:50
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Here is an online Family Tree for Lars Jacobsen and Mari Erichsdatter. Lacking info on the marriage of son Lars Larsen. However many of the famly are listed as having died at Stoksetødegaard, Furnes, Vang, Hedmark.
http://www.solhellingadata.no/Rune/Slekt/html/fam/fam08319.html
Another point of interest is that the children are associated with the Bratberg farm where we found Lars Larsen and parents Lars Jacobsen and Mari Erichsdatter and siblings in the 1801 Census. |
Edited by - AntonH on 22/10/2015 16:53:12 |
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cherylhouse
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2015 : 04:54:17
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I want to say that I am very appreciative of your expertise and time in all of the work that you are doing. I do work part time and so I am not always able to respond as quickly as I might wish and have not been able to fully digest all that you have found out.
The family book that I have referenced is a biography titled as I mentioned Peder and Mathilde. It was written by their son Melvin P. Engelstad in 1976 and published by alphagraphics. It looks like a self published volume. I believe it was written to honor his parents. Peder was a very intelligent person and successful northern Minnesota pioneer farmer and he and his wife had a large family as well. Because of the date of the publication I would believe that it was written from family information rather than internet research and the quantity of information (it is 328 pages) which includes lists of the furnishings in their one room homestead home and home remedies used on Peder's farm (with a warning that the author does not recommend them) and even a list of the typical weekday menu at Sveen which includes 5 meals (frokost, dugurd, middag, eftasvol, and kvelvol) speaks to conversations or journal entries.
I must admit because the book is long I have not read every word although most of what I am interested in occurs earlier in the story as much of the later information regards Peder and Mathilde. I can add that Karen had one sibling Lars and he assisted his father Lars Suderud in the profession of tommermene. This section of the book gives much insight into typical farms such as Odegaarden at this point in time in Norway. |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 21/10/2015 : 17:40:34
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..........profession of tommermene - Tømmermennene - Carpenters
Kåre |
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cherylhouse
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2015 : 05:20:33
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I have studied a bit more in the family book Peder and Mathilde. Karen's oldest son Peder it states was born Dec. 8, 1857 and baptized in Vang Church. The book does say that he was born on Odegaarden and that they lived there until Peder was one, Dec. 1858. This does not ring true to where the records show him being born, but it sure seems like him in every other regard.
The book states that the wedding date for Peder and Mathilde is listed as 8/12/1867 in Vang church as someone found as well.
I don't know if is possible to find death dates to help with anything but the book states that Karen's mom Inge died in 1870 the same year as the youngest child was born (Hans on January 25, 1870 at Sveen). |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2015 : 16:17:27
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quote:
Originally posted by cherylhouse
I have studied a bit more in the family book Peder and Mathilde. Karen's oldest son Peder it states was born Dec. 8, 1857 and baptized in Vang Church. The book does say that he was born on Odegaarden and that they lived there until Peder was one, Dec. 1858. This does not ring true to where the records show him being born, but it sure seems like him in every other regard.
Peder was born on Suderud, Dec. 8. 1857 bapt. in Vang church Jan. 10. 1858, last bapt. left hand #9
The last mentioned of the Godparents is Lars Larsen Suderud.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 22/10/2015 16:22:39 |
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cherylhouse
Starting member
USA
26 Posts |
Posted - 22/10/2015 : 16:48:56
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Thank you. It does appear that Peder was born on Suderud rather than on Odegaarden as the book states. If Melvin got his information from Peder, he must not have had that part of the story correct.
Still wondering if information might be available for the deaths of Hans Paulsen as mentioned above or Inge Karen's mom also mentioned above.
Thanks again. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2015 : 05:02:25
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Marriage 1860 in Vang
Lars Larsen, Suderud - bachelor, gmdson (gaardsmand's son)
Father is Lars Larsen, Suderud.
Marries
Marthe Pedersdatter, Myhr
Father Peder Olsen, Myhr
Trulover Knud Myhr, Jens Ingelsrud
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/kb/vi/person/pv00000001026840
1865 census in Vang
Residence: Kartomten vestre Sondre Deel
Lars Larsen 38 b Vangs Prjg, Gaardbruger og Selveier
Marthe Pedersdatter 36 b Vangs
Johannes 7 b Vangs
Peder Larsen 5 b Vangs
Lars Larsen 2 b Vangs
http://digitalarkivet.arkivverket.no/ft/person/pf01038032009185
Didn't see Inge's death 1869-1871 in Vang/Furness.
Who was the Hans Paulsen who died, Cheryl? The Hans Paulsen born 1870 went to America with his parents, right? |
Edited by - JaneC on 23/10/2015 23:29:42 |
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Information on Karen Suderud
