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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
 Posted - 26/04/2007 : 08:06:10
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Hi Hopkins
you are right about Syd(Southern) Hem, I have copied some pages about Hem, old Hem, a while ago and Sigurd Tollefsen Hem was user of Norigard (Northern) Hem, he shall also be listed in band II page 609, which obvious is Søndre (Southern) Hem .
Sigurd was son of Tollev Gunnarsen Hem mentioned 1588 on N. Hem married to Randi Knudsdatter Ljøterud, Sandsvær municipality, Hedenstad parish in Buskerud County d 1659. She became 100 years old according the church records.
Tollev Hem was G. Grandson of Aslaug Ormsdatter Hem and Neri NN mentioned abowe acc. Hitterdal/Heddal and Olav Olavsen Tveiten who also had a claim in Hem.
Accordind the author of Sauherad Bygdebok, Birger Kirkeby, decendants from Old Hem are spread on several farm in Sauherad.
We shall work this out.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 26/04/2007 12:15:02 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2007 : 13:43:53
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Olav Olavsen Tveiten was also a grandson of Aslaug Ormsdatter Hem and Neri NN. Olav Tveiten was the son of Aslaug and Neri's daughter (given name unknown) Nerisdtr and her husband "Olav Olavsen from Skjerven i Lardal" (d 1593).
In the Sauherad books an abbreviation is used that I don't recognize. If I post an example here perhaps someone would kindly tell me what Norwegian word 'dvs' is indicating. I've highlighted it in red in the following paragraph. I DON'T need the entire paragraph translated - I've already done that for myself. I just can't decipher this one abbreviation and it is used frequently in the Sauherad books.
Olav Olsson frå Skjerven i Lardal 1542-93 og NN Nerisd. hadde minst tri barn: 1) Tarald, frå nedafor, 2) Hælge d 1686, g m Halvor Torgrimsson Nisi i Gransherad, 3) Olav, kom til Tveitan i Tinnegrend, som han hadde odel til etter godmor si, Aslaug Ormarsd. på Hem [Barn: Hølje, «godfader» til Torer Toresson Haukedalen, Barbara g m Anund Gunnarsson Gjestrud i Heddal, Haldis, g m Olav Jonsson «Bersøe» i Numedal, dvs. Bergseid i Rollag]. Nerisdottera kom altså til å føre Borgarætta frå 1500-talet (sjå Nord-Hem) vidare på Sud-Hem. Ein son tok over garden:
Tarald Olsson....
Source: Birger Kirkeby, Bygdebok for Sauherad Gards- og Ættesoge: Band II Gardsnr. 18-43 (Skien, Norway: Utgjevar Sauherad kommune/Oluf Rasmussen Trykkeri, 1982), page 625.
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Edited by - Hopkins on 26/04/2007 13:46:39 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2007 : 18:30:24
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dvs means : in other words/i.e.
You are right about Olav Skjerven from Lardal municipality and parish in Vesfold county, for that reason he had a claim in Hem and exchanged land with Kjetil Hallvardsson in both Søregarden (Southern farm) Hem and Midtgarden (central) Hem.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=17686&s=n&str=
Olav Olavsen´s grandparents was Olav Olavsen Øvre Skjerven about 1485-1550 and Helga Mattisdatter Holm b. a. 1490.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=10312&s=n&str=
This Olav Skjerven was a "Big-farmer" owning lot´s of farms in both Vestfold, Telemark and Buskerud county.
Her comes these names "godmor"/bestemor/grandmother and "godfader"/bestefar/grandfather I have mentioned earlier, can be misunderstood as godparents /faddere.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 26/04/2007 19:18:03 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2007 : 19:56:59
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Thank you, Kåre. I was still working on the dvs abbreviation and thought I was beginning to see a pattern in how it is used.
I always enjoy your links to the Diplomatarium Norvegicum. I save them. They are "challenging" - I'm just thankful they have been transcribed into type and I don't also have to face the handwriting of the period.
I remember what you indicated about godmor/godfader earlier. That was a nice tidbit of information not commonly discussed. I see those terms often in histories in Gransherad, Hitterdal/Heddal, Sauherad, etc. but I don't recall ever seeing them used in Vestlandet areas.
Good luck on your painting project ! |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2007 : 22:29:21
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Thanks Hopkins,
perhaps you are right about the use of godfader-moder, I havn´t thought it over, Bedstemoder and Bedstefader are more ordinary.
Diplomatarium Norwegicum take us back back to 1570 and earlier, 22 band and 19 000 documents. Her is a faximile from 1224, average quality, the only word I understand is Konongs and Konogr: King
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/dipl_norv/bilder/dip1224.jpg
Dokumentasjonsprosjeket is now about half-way in making Regesta (from 822-1390 the, rest will be completed later), where all diplomas from Diplomatarium is given a supplement for a better understanding.
I can give an example, take the 1337 dokument about the manslaughter on Hem on Hallvard Erlingsson Haukvik in the new Regista which has a link to the original in Diplomatarium http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/regest_vise_tekst.prl?b=4690&s=n&str=
The reason that caused Hallvard Erlingsson his life was for one reason he visited Hem, nasty words and accusations was spoken and Hallvard threw Aslaug Saksabjørnsdatter to the ground and stepped on her while he shouted she was the worst woman ever walked on this ground and other nasty words, then Borgar Hem killed him.
It´s enough material to write a book containig Hem, Nes, Lindheim, Skjerven and Søum (in Sandsvær) I would think.
Kåre |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 26/04/2007 : 23:03:53
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Ah, Kåre, I hope you are the one to write that book! Hopkins is right, you submit such helpful and interesting pieces to this picture. Thanks again for all your research you share.
And thank you, Hopkins, for the full citation:
Birger Kirkeby, Bygdebok for Sauherad Gards- og Ættesoge: Band II Gardsnr. 18-43 (Skien, Norway: Utgjevar Sauherad kommune/Oluf Rasmussen Trykkeri, 1982), page 625.
Is there a source where I could buy a copy? Or would it only be available through interlibrary loan?
Ellie
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Edited by - hjemmet on 26/04/2007 23:19:02 |
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Hopkins
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3351 Posts |
Posted - 27/04/2007 : 01:13:23
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Colorful family story! I'll add it to my much adored collection of "black sheep".
I think the tempers in this blood line have thinned greatly, or at least I'll hope so. I'll probably still chuckle all evening.
Ellie, Norwegian bygdebøker are NOT CHEAP to purchase and we in the US also have to pay heavy shipping charges to get them over here. Older books are often out of print and you have to watch listings through Norwegian "used-book" stores to hope to find those.
Try inter-library loan and/or using the Lookup volunteers(if your request is limited) I gave you links to earlier. Inter-library loan might cost up to $20 - the loaning library has to recoup the costs of shipping the book(s) to your local library and back.
Use the online LDS library catalog to get good publication information on most Norwegian bygdebøker. Also check the listings of bygdebøker sorted by fylke that John Follesdal has on his "Ancestors From Norway" website.
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2007 : 14:12:15
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Hi all, outdoor-painting almost finished.
Thanks Hjemmet, but let´s hope a potential historian interested writer read this topic.
Perhaps a bit of the topic, but Hem-descendants are perhaps also descendant´s from Aslak Ljøterud
I´ll give some more info. from this never-ending story, from Randi Knutsdatter Ljøterud Haugholt /Hem mentioned abowe.
She was daughter of Knut Jonsen Ljøterud d.1608 and Gudrun Andersdatter. His father Jon Torsen Ljøterud, d. after 1551, is mentioned in sevaral diplomas, in 1547 when he buy some of his sister Thorny´s part in Ljøterud and Lindås (this was a gift from her father Tor when she married Frik Arnessøn)
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=9676&s=n&str=
In 1551 Jon Torsen (Thordssøn) is taken to court about a disagreement of land between to farmers from Eiker (neihgbour municipality)and Jon
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=9688&s=n&str=
Jon was son of Thor Aslaksen Ljøterud b. a. 1460-d.a.1515 mentioned 1540 when he and his wife "hans hustru" (unknown name) give his daughter Margit parts on both Ljøterud and Lindås
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=9657&s=n&str
And in 1516 when borders between Ljøterud and Rustad are set up by two "lagrettemenn" law-men.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=9261&s=n&str
His father Aslak Ljøterud b. a. 1420, baught Ljøterud after 1449.
My G.Grandmother was Anna Karine Torsteinsdatyer Ljøterud 1826-74.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 28/04/2007 14:59:09 |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2007 : 16:09:40
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Hi Kåre,
Is Gudrun a common Norwegian name? I ask for a few reasons, one is that I've not come across it reading many many of these census reports in my searches thus far. The second reason, referring back to my first query for Hans Sigurdsen Hem's ancestors, is that we have a photograph of all Hans Sigurdsen Hem's family, composite adult photographs from the 1870's or later. I've always been aware that I carry a Hem resemblance to my dad and grandfather, Lars, but most keenly resemble Lars' aunt, Gudrun, Hans Sigurdsen's firstborn. And now you discuss this link to Knut Jonsen Ljoterud and his wife Gudrun Andersdatter. Would be interesting to get my Hem line back and see if that name is part of a family tradition.
I am stuck for now waiting for my dictionary to arrive, and heading for a library to look into interlibrary loan of the Sauherad book. I wonder if I am skilled enough yet, certainly eager enough! Maybe I should wait til I visit my mother in Massachusetts who, though nearly blind, still is able to read & write Norwegian (using her magnifying lenses). She is delighted with this project!
If anyone is interested in a copy of this generation of Hans Sigurdsen Hem family photos, please email me and I will gladly scan my copy and send it to you.
Ellie
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 28/04/2007 : 20:16:20
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Hi Ellie
Gudrun is a common name in Norway, perhaps more common about 20-30 years ago or earlier, the use of a first name change in dif.eras.
I would like to have a copy of the "Sigursen´s", thank you, when I am going to make look-ups in the books from Sauherad I might need all the names I can get.
Hopefuly they have a register on farms and names if I remember right
Interesting to hear about you mother, many "Norskamerikanere" of the elder genearation speak perfect Norwegian even they never has been in Norway, that impress me.
Sending a dictionaris an another link which might be to some help:
Norwegian-American Dictionary
http://home.online.no/~otjoerge/files/word.htm
Ghotik letters, used in the older church records, enter alfabet, at least it tell´s you that the letters are very differant from todays and hard to read.
http://www.hist.uib.no/gotisk/
Tonight it´s babysitting for my grandchildren.
Kåre |
Edited by - Kåarto on 28/04/2007 20:27:54 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 00:12:26
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More Info. about Nordre Hem and Medelgarden/Hem Lille from Bygdebok for Sauherad, starting with Sigurd Ellevsen1789-1855 and Guro Hansdatter Gripastad born April 9. 1786, right page nr 3 from bottom: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7924&idx_id=7924&uid=ny&idx_side=-84
They married Oct, 27, 1806, best men: Bjørn Hem og Ole Klevar, right page Copul 19.
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7924&idx_id=7924&uid=ny&idx_side=-168
Sigurd was son of Ellev Larsen 1740-96 and Ingeborg Johnsdr.Holthe 1752-1808, they married Nov. 14, couple (copul) nr 11, right page nr 12 from bottom:
Co****ret (married)Saude Ellev Larsen Hem og Ingeborg Johnsdatter Holthe:
http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=7924&idx_id=7924&uid=ny&idx_side=-25
Ellev was son of Lars Johnsen Hovdejorden 1709-72 from Heddal parish (Northern part of lake Heddalsvannet) and Bergit Sigurdsdatter b. on Graven in Lisleherad parish (Heddal parish and church). Lars got deed (property) on Hem.
Heddal stavkirke http://www.stavkirke.org/stavkirker/heddal.html
Bergit was daughter of Sigurd Tollevsen born on Hågå under Haugholt between 1686-90, user of Hem and Ingeborg Taraldsdatter d. 1759 (Olav Olavsen Tveiten/Skjerven family)
Sigurd was son of Tollev Gunnarsen, mentiond 1588 , and Randi Knudsdatter Ljøterud, descendant from Aslak Ljøterud b. a. 1420. Ljøterud mentioned earlier, first time mentioned in a diploma from 1449. http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=9149&s=n&str=
Tollev was son of Gunnar Sigurdsen and NN from Drangedal parish
Gunnar was son of Sigurd Nerisen, son of Neri NN and Aslaug Ormarsdatter, both mentioned several times earlier about "old Hem".
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 05/05/2007 01:04:20 |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 03:08:38
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Yea!! Hooray!!! This is AMAZING, Kåre!!! I can't thank you enough!!!
In only 3 weeks time, you and the other fine folks at this site have given me an extraordinary piece of family history that without you, would probably have been lost to us! And in the meantime, I have come to feel so deeply connected to Norway and my heritage. I wish I had a million dollars to send you! I am stunned. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
So we are cousins now?!!!
Mange tusan takk!
Ellie |
Edited by - hjemmet on 05/05/2007 04:28:39 |
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Kåarto
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
5861 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2007 : 16:54:47
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Hi Ellie, yes we are cousins.
More info about these families can be e-mailed, it´s enougf material to fill these pages.
A short version, Skjerven lies in Lardal parish in Vestfold County:
Olav Skjerven is likely descendant from Anund Greipsson, heir to Øvre (Upper) Skjerevn and his brother Rolv got Nedre Skjerven, no date in the dipoloma.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=595&s=n&str=
Olav´s wife Helga Mattisdatter was daughter of Mattis Nilsson (Nikulason) Holm, his mother in law, Karen, exchange land (her husbands inheritance?) in Lindheim in Sauherad with Rollef Thorstensen in 1533. Olav Skjerven was Lagrettemann, local judge, in this case.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=10312&s=n&str=
Both Mattis Nilsen b.a.1450-d.befor 1530 and his father Nils Matthisen b.a.1430-d.a.1481 mentioned as "Lagrettemenn", see down page "Brevtekst" line 3.
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=7026&s=n&str=
Nils Mattisen was son of Mattis Torgeisen paa Tufte a.1430-d.a.1480 and Helge/Helga po Holm, both mentioned i a dipolma from 1543, down page "Brevtekst" line 14 and 23
http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/middelalder/diplom_vise_tekst.prl?b=4578&s=n&str=
Aslak Ljøterud b.a.1420 was likely from Narum in Sigdal parish in Buskerud County, because his son Thor Aslaken d. after 1516 inherit a part of a farm i Narum.
Kåre
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Edited by - Kåarto on 05/05/2007 17:00:36 |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2007 : 21:50:51
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Kåre,
Do we have any dates for Auslag Ormarsdatter and husband NN (is that possibly Neri No?) who are parents of Sigurd Nerisen? This part on the lineage is getting confusing to me.
Thanks, Ellie
"Tollev was son of Gunnar Sigurdsen and NN from Drangedal parish
Gunnar was son of Sigurd Nerisen, son of Neri NN and Aslaug Ormarsdatter, both mentioned several times earlier about "old Hem".
Kåre"
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Edited by - hjemmet on 07/05/2007 21:55:18 |
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hjemmet
Junior member
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 28/05/2007 : 16:10:33
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Dear Kåre and other researchers,
I am correcting a mistake I made in earlier posts here where I had made a peculiar assumption about Kåre's gender being female... I was wrong. He is one of the kindest most helpful people I have ever encountered. When I realized that another researcher on the Hem lineage was also making that same incorrect assumption I thought I'd better get back to old posts and correct that mistake.
I do understand a certain anonymity is professional, I hope I am not crossing a line of propriety here. All of you researchers who have helped me have been just superb, gender is irrelevant.
With much thanks (and a blush for my embarrassment!),
Ellie |
Edited by - hjemmet on 28/05/2007 16:13:19 |
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HEM relatives in Arendal, Telemark? & Denmark
