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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
 Posted - 28/01/2016 : 17:32:44
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quote:
Originally posted by jkmarler
Here is Otto's baptism. Here the father is identified as Ander Peter Johansen, ein fra Sverige.
Kildeinformasjon: Oppland fylke, Fåberg, Ministerialbok nr. 7 (1868-1878), Fødte og døpte 1871, side 43.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8937&idx_id=8937&uid=ny&idx_side=-49
Here is Kristian's baptism. Here the father is identified as Anders Johansen form Boraas Sverige:
He is #146:
Kildeinformasjon: Buskerud fylke, Heggen i Modum, Klokkerbok nr. I 7 (1869-1878), Fødte og døpte 1872, side 30.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8499&idx_id=8499&uid=ny&idx_side=-35
Julie #108 father named ___ Peter Johanson:
Kildeinformasjon: Oppland fylke, Fåberg, Ministerialbok nr. 7 (1868-1878), Fødte og døpte 1870, side 30.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8937&idx_id=8937&uid=ny&idx_side=-36
There are a few more words in the description of Anders in Kristian's baptism. Maybe something interesting?
A little recap.
These are the records for Anders Peter Johanson as tied to the Flugstad family. Boraas is the only specific place in Sweden mentioned.
The candidate with son Johan Gustav Alfred in Ogna is consistently listed with birth place Bratensby. Bratensby is a tiny place not far from Boraas. I think.
My earlier statement that birthplace was not consistent was based on a mistaken reference to Dalsland. Dalsland should never have come up. Bratensby and Boraas as a place of origin could - conceivably - be same person.
I have trouble finding Bratensby on a map. Found it once, but it now eludes me.
A map would be good.
The emigration lists for Boraas and Bratensby could be checked...
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Edited by - JaneC on 28/01/2016 17:37:30 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 17:56:05
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I wrote to Einar to take a look at the line in Kristian's baptism record regarding his father. I think he's made the best out of it likely to become clear. That he is listed as a railroad worker probably working for someone named Danil Heltgaard in Drammen.
Einar also pointed out that Gina travelled to Sweden in late 1870, #96:
Kildeinformasjon: Oppland fylke, Fåberg, Ministerialbok nr. 7 (1868-1878), Inn- og utflyttede 1871, side 522.
Permanent sidelenke: http://www.arkivverket.no/URN:kb_read?idx_kildeid=8937&idx_id=8937&uid=ny&idx_side=-452
Thanks Einar!
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Edited by - jkmarler on 28/01/2016 17:56:37 |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 18:15:02
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Absolutt! Helt! Mange takk, Einar. (Ogsaa for fiskegratteng oppskriften.)
I'm going to need a thesaurus to come up with more superlatives for all of you.
Now what on earth was Double-Great Granny Gina doing? She had Julie on 1Jul 1870, and then dashes over to Sweden fourteen months later, when her mother had delivered Otto (by Anders) only five months earlier?
I know, jk... I know: "....the usual. Love or money." |
Edited by - ROBJE on 28/01/2016 18:32:27 |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 18:36:50
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Geography...history....scandals: you guys serve it all up.
I haven't even got around to starting my book on Alexander Hamilton. Seems rather tame by comparison. |
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eibache
Norway Heritage Veteran
Norway
6495 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 21:10:52
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quote:
The candidate with son Johan Gustav Alfred in Ogna is consistently listed with birth place Bratensby.
Marriage, Sept 22 1877: Anders Petter Johannesson 21.08.1857 Jernbanearbeider Ungk. Fødestad: Bråttenberg, Elfsborg, Sverige.
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Einar |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 21:45:32
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Yes, that is his candidacy's major flaw, eibache. My Anders made a fleeting notation of being from Boraas, Sweden.
So like a clear-cut forest, I'm stumped.
Family Search offers up dozens upon dozens of Anders Johansens born between 1846 and 1850. I'd love to get into Swedish archives, but though I can manoeuver through Danish text, my forehead meets the table when confronted with Swedish.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 22:32:49
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Chronological list of railways opened to 1890 at Wikipedia
Name Opened Closed County(ies) Termini Length (km)
Hovedbanen 1854 Oslo and Akershus Oslo S Eidsvoll 84 km
Hamar-Grundsetbanen 1862 Hedmark Hamar Grundset 38 km
Kongsvingerbanen 1862 Akershus and Hedmark Lillestrøm Kongsvinger 115 km
Trondhjem-Størenbanen 1864 Sør-Trøndelag Trondheim Støren 51 km
Grensebanen 1865 Hedmark Kongsvinger Charlottenberg 43 km
Randsfjordbanen 1866/1868 1981 (part) Buskerud and Oppland Drammen Randsfjord 54 km
Drammenbanen 1872 Oslo, Akershus and Buskerud Oslo S Drammen 42 km
Spikkestadlinjen 1872 Akershus and Buskerud Asker Spikkestad 14 km
Skøyen–Filipstadlinjen 1872 Oslo Skøyen Filipstad 2 km
Krøderbanen 1872 1985 Buskerud Vikersund Krøderen 26 km
Rørosbanen 1877 Hedmark and Sør-Trøndelag Hamar Støren 382 km
Jærbanen 1878 Rogaland Stavanger Egersund 75 km
Østfoldbanen (Vestre) 1879 Oslo, Akershus and Østfold Oslo S Kornsjø 170 km
Hedemarksbanen 1880 Akershus and Hedmark Eidsvoll Hamar 59 km
Vestfoldbanen 1881/1882 Buskerud and Vestfold Drammen Skien 148 km
Meråkerbanen 1881 Sør-Trøndelag and Nord-Trøndelag Trondheim S Storlien 102 km
Hortenlinjen 1881 2002 Vestfold Skoppum Horten 7 km
Østfoldbanen (Østre) 1882 Akershus and Østfold Ski Sarpsborg 80 km
Vossebanen 1883 2001 Hordaland Bergen Voss 18 km
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 22:41:09
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Ancestry.com has this data base. Sweden, Select Baptisms, 1611-1920. However even using the search parameters of Anders Petter Johan*, born 1846 to 1850 and using the key word Herrljunga to narrow the search to just that municipality, still turns up 12 candidates. Here is one example
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 11 nov 1850
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Johansson
Mother: Johanna Bryngelsdr.
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: 63
There are no entries for the municipality of Borås for those years.
Using the birth date turned up by Einar and posted on page ten of Aug 21, 1851 for Herrljunga does not turn up any candidates. |
Edited by - AntonH on 29/01/2016 02:26:37 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 28/01/2016 : 22:59:23
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Using just 1851 and Herrljunga turns up these four candidates.
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 24 jan 1851
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Andersson
Mother: Maria Pettersdr.
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: bk C:6 p 17
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 3 feb 1851
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Jonasson
Mother: Johanna Andersdr.
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: bk C:6 p 19
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 mar 1851
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Svensson
Mother: Cherstin Andersdr.
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: 58
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 20 jun 1851
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Jonsson
Mother:
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: bk C:6 p 21
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Edited by - AntonH on 28/01/2016 22:59:46 |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2016 : 00:00:18
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Obviously, I like Number Three there, lyndal. (Matching birthdays with DoubleGreatGrandpappy would be soooo cool.) It's quirky that his father's surname is the same as a Fadder at the Anders Peter Johannesen of this morning (who married Maria Andersd on 8.11.1879), but then, Svensson would also be a very common Swedish name, no?
Oddly, for a year or so I had zero good candidates for the enigmatic Swede.
Suddenly, there are too many.
And though it was obvious that Anders Peter Johansen was a common name, who'd have thought there'd be so many Swedes with that handle working on the Norwegian railway? Jane C listed ten of them a couple of pages back, in the 1875 census.
Mind-boggling. I'd better have a lie-down.
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Edited by - ROBJE on 29/01/2016 00:26:29 |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2016 : 16:05:19
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Righto! Tally-ho!
I'm now a paid-up subscriber to the Swedish archives, and stumbling about that labyrinth.
Great fun. (Gracious, how my concept of fun has changed over the years....sigh...)
So far, it doesn't seem it ends well for Old Anders. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2016 : 21:41:45
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Bravo! Wow, I've never seen it. Will be interested to hear how it goes.
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2016 : 22:45:26
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....so far, not so well JaneC.
I'm so accustomed (but quite dim) on the Norway statarkivvet that I feel blind, deaf, and dumb on the Swedish version.
I must be doing something very wrong, because I can only find one Anders Petter Johannson born in Boraas between 1844 and 1851 (October, 1849).
He ends up marrying in December of 1878, and then goes on to sire no less than ten children.
The fecundity, birthplace and birth year may fit my Anders, but his occupation in 1910 is Baker.
I'm now thrashing through the thickets of their Inn and Ut flydning to see if this fellow ever hied off to Norway in his youth.
Any suggestions?
(Simultaneous darn and thanks to jkmarler for not letting me give up on my rascally Swede....)
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 29/01/2016 : 22:59:28
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I'm skimming through the Swedish records on Ancestry.com. Not familiar with this stuff. Simultaneous darn and thanks to you for sparking us to foray across the border.
Sweden, Select Baptisms, 1611-1920
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 23 okt 1852 (23 Oct 1852)
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Andersson
Mother: Catrina Carlsdr.
FHL Film Number: 418950 Reference ID: bk C:6 p 43
Sweden, Select Baptisms, 1611-1920
Name: Anders Petter Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 7 okt 1852 (7 Oct 1852)
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Andreasson
Mother: Johanna Benjaminsdr.
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: 94
Sweden, Select Baptisms, 1611-1920
Name: Anders Johannesson
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 16 apr 1850
Birth Place: Herrljunga, Älvsborg, Sweden
Father: Johannes Andreasson
Mother: --
FHL Film Number: 418950
Reference ID: bk C:6 p 5
The candidate in Norway we currently focused on was Anders, father of Johan Gustav Alfred. That guy's father's name was Johannes Andersson, wasn't it? Einar put the birth date of that Anders as 21 August 1857 (decoding of the marriage record). I haven't so far thrashed up any Anders Petter/Peter/Peder born 1847-1860 in Borås, which must mean I'm not searching right, because there seem to be Anders Peter Johannessons everywhere else we turn - though they seem to scrupulously avoid being born in August, which doesn't matter anyway if the candidate Anders isn't yours.
Ancestry wants me to notice this one:
Norway, Select Marriages
Name: Anders Petter Johannessen
Gender: Male
Age: 25
Birth Date: 1847
Marriage Date: 17 jan 1872
Marriage Place: , Tune, Ostfold, Norway
Father: Johannes Andersen
Spouse: Lovise Andreasdr
FHL Film Number: 255795
...not terribly appealing...
And, like you, I had the nightmarish thought that your Anders could have returned to Sweden, probably by riding on a train.
Also, we don't know the birth year of your Anders. Our estimate might be off. When I select +- 10 years, the search engine refuses to show me anybody, certainly no one in Boraas. Looking for the churchbook itself, I found 1860 births onward, haven't located the earlier years. I assume this is my inexperience. Arghhh...
If your Anders went home and left again, he'd depart from Gothenberg, right?
Gothenberg, Sweden, Passenger Lists
Name: Anders Petter Johansson
Departure Date: 15 apr 1881
Departure Place: Göteborg (Gothenburg), Göteborg och Bohus, Sverige
Ship Name: Rollo
Birth Date: abt 1851
Birth Place: Herrljunga
Age: 30
Destination: Hull, England
That's it, gotta go. I don't wish I had those 45 minutes of my life back, but I do wish I'd found something for you!
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Edited by - JaneC on 29/01/2016 23:29:11 |
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Greeting, Countrymen
