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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
 Posted - 21/01/2016 : 03:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by ROBJE
I'm bewildered (again), jk. I was on family search this morning and couldn't find the right Simon.
We don't know that he is the right Simon. We are trying him on to see how well he fits and if definitive evidence can be found to connect him. Otherwise, he is just a good potential.
Familysearch is about the most flexible on spelling variations and the like. I was unable to find any Simon Thorson sufficiently like the guy in Norway, so I searched for any Simon who matched the basics (age, date of migration etc.) and then for Simon Moen (playing a possible since the farm the family was on in 1875 was named Moen) and that's when candidate Simon became apparent. He matches the basic profile but I'm still looking for specifics to match. It's not really magic but due diligence, aggressive collection of records, persistance. Nerdy things like that. |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 03:16:17
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| Nerdy rules the world, jk. |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 08:09:14
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Okay, she's not a hot prospect but here is a Julith (the name is sloppily written might be a Judith) Anderson, b Norway abt 1871 came to US in 1910, father is born in Sweden, mother Norway, servant:
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MZ3B-BSV |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 15:25:51
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The place is right, the birth and immigration dates match, and the surname (while common) fits. The only disqualification is the first name, which is obviously mangled because Julith is certainly not a Norwegian name I've seen before.
This possible vanishes by the time of the 1930 census. Mayhap she exchanged the drudgery of being a servant in the USA for similar subservience back home.
And I cannot either find any other suitable Julies,
Food for thought, certainly. You all offer up quite the menu here.
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 16:48:01
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Howzabout one other impossible request, then?
One unfortunate Matthias Christensen, born 1866 to Kristine and dirt-poor Christian Gundersen in Faaberg. I've his birth and baptism, but have not seen him in the death records I searched up to 1871, and his siblings are widely scattered by the 1875 census, in which I cannot find him either. He'd only have been four or five when the whole clan imploded in about 1870, so Mathias may have been shuffled off somewhere and given another name completely.
The only semi-suitable Mathias I've ever turned up is in 1885, when a nineteen year old from Faaberg surnamed Holt is an 'underelev' at a camp.
I have a photo of the chubby lad at about 15 years of age, taken in a Lillehammer studio.
That ain't much to go on, I know.
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 21/01/2016 : 19:25:33
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| Yup. That's the last place I saw him recorded, too. |
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2016 : 01:04:04
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Hi all, I can only stay for a minute. This is re. Simon Moen. In the 1900 US census Jackie posted with Simon and Marie Moen living in Minneapolis, Hennepin, Minnesota, the couple's residence is 410 18th Avenue North.
Here's a listing from U.S. City Directories Database:
Name: Simon T Moen
Residence Year: 1901
Street address: 410 18th Av N
Residence Place: Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA
Occupation: Laborer
Publication Title: Minneapolis, Minnesota, City Directory, 1901
The "T" is simply additional evidence that the Simon Thoreson-Marie Sletten marriage is Simon and Marie Moen.
They married at Trinity Lutheran Church in Minneapolis, but I didn't find a baptism record for Alfred there. The skimpy marriage note had no identifying info other than their ages - which correspond to the census records Jackie posted.
Also, in the 1900 census, the birth month "Jan" looks a little funky, could be a "Jan" corrected to a "Jun" by someone who didn't consider clarity in the matter terribly important.
Son of the candidate Simon, Alfred Thorval Moen, on FAG:
FAG
About Mathias - what name is used to label the family photo? A formal portrait at age fifteen sounds like a confirmation portrait.You mention his siblings being scattered and their names and locations might be clues...
So that's a bunch of not much....
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Edited by - JaneC on 22/01/2016 04:21:01 |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2016 : 17:21:41
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Well, JaneC, the way those photos are tagged calls more for Hercule Poirot that it does whiz-bang research.
Infuriatingly, a group shot of six ancestors is noted as "Gina, far's mor, sitter lengst til venstre. Tante staar bak hende. Far's bestemor sitter ytterst til h. De andre 3 er tanter og onkel til far."
i.e.: -Gina (my great-great grandmother b1852), is sitting furthest left. Auntie (presumably Anne b1858, as she is the only one specifically named in a couple of other head shots, hence the familiar Auntie) stands behind her. Dad's (Christian Andersen b1872) grandmother (Christine Olsdatter b1829) sits furthest to the right. The others are aunts and uncle of Dad.-
(A rather curt throwaway last sentence there, no?)
So my conundrum there is when might the photo have been taken? And how does this splintered, penniless clan, which seems more out of Stephen King than Norman Rockwell, congregate to pose nicely one fine day in Lillehammer?
The only male certainly looks between 16 and 20, and the only 'uncle' we know of that it could be would be Georg b1860, placing the photo day as 1875, a year before he dashed off to America. By 1875, however, Gina had borne two children with the rascally Anders Petter Johansen, and her cougar mother Christine had whelped one with the same scoundrel. Kind'a makes a happy jaunt to Lillehammer doubtful, it seems to me.
But possible. This was one odd bunch.
Meanwhile, aside from the presumable Anne (of whom we only see a face anyway), the youngest female in the photo looks about 15, suggesting Mathea b1855 and placing the photo in 1870, before the fireworks began.
And it may be my wishful imagination, but Double-Great-Granny Gina does seem to display a baby bulge as she sits serenely. And that would mean the swashbuckling Swede b1852 is the fellow in the photo.
(I know, I know....he was written off in the picture as an un-named uncle, but the phantom Swede was long gone by the time my great-Grandad Christan was out of diapers, and would never have known him, let alone point him out for the daughter who assembled this infernal album.)
That he would impress his new clan-to-be with the miracle of photography also rings plausible. (Okay; mildly chimes, at least.)
Talk about a bunch of not much.... (I haven't even got around to Mathias b 1866, meaning it's certainly not him in this mysterious photo. He's part of a row of four later un-named head shots taken in exactly the same format (on the same day, methinks) labelled only "Tanter og Onkler av Far" i.e.: "aunts and Uncles of Dad" (Christian b1872)
FB face-recognition, maybe? Or plead with you to find the 19th century files from Josephine Grundseth, Photographer? I mean, you're good, aren't you?
- Rob
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Edited by - ROBJE on 22/01/2016 17:24:29 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2016 : 19:56:12
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There used to be a database of historical photographers of Norway but its been so long since I've looked at it. It was more in the nature of biographical information about the photographer.
Back to Mathias, is the photo clearly labelled as Mathias Christianson or is it enigmatic?
Okay, I've looked through every year of every Fåberg register from 1879-1885 for confirmation of Matthias Christianson and not found yours.
Likewise, I've searched every Fåberg death register from 1866-1900 and found no death record for him. There is a note there also the deaths in 1866 only go to October 1866 and even though the next book description says it begins with 1867 there are no 1867 deaths to find, the book begins with 1868. So a year and a quarter of deaths may not have been captured somewhere along the line.
Since he does not appear in the online 1875 census, which I grant is not completely comprehensive, Fåberg is among the places included in the online version.
So my theory is Matthais unfortunately died in the missing records period. |
Edited by - jkmarler on 22/01/2016 23:03:44 |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 22/01/2016 : 23:53:36
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....Mathias' possible photo, jk, is extremely enigmatic.
I thank you again for your yeoman efforts, and your theory is likely correct.
BUT: we know that by 1871, poor Mathias' mother is delivering yet another baby (by her daughter Gina's mate), and his daddy is (likely) recorded as Laegdslem elsewhere. The family has obviously gone from poverty-stricken to worse, if that's possible.
And there's a child sur-named Christiansen b1866 but with the first name Gudbrand in the 1975 census, in care of an Olsdatter woman who may possibly be sister to Mathias' mother Christine. He's simply listed as 'pleiebarn'.
I'm pretty certain, though, that Christian names were sacrosanct at the time (thank goodness, for genealogists' sake), and an adoptive or foster relative wouldn't run around changing it.
So I do lean towards your hypothesis.
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Edited by - ROBJE on 23/01/2016 00:16:58 |
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jkmarler
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
7790 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2016 : 02:48:08
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You've alluded to illegitimacy in Norway in rather negative terms. Historically, it's been reported that, in days long past 3%-15% of the births in Norway have been to unmarried parents. But in 2000, the figure of live births to parents who were not married is 49%. Obviously, its something that speaks to Norwegians.
Historically, there were many reasons for these 3%-15%. Proven fertility was a virtue, ensuring that you as a couple would have laborers to help with the farm operation. For single women, it was also a hope for someone to care for you in your old age, rather than ending up on the uncaring state. Actual weddings were large expensive affairs and not every family had the scratch to pay for them at the time to make sure a baby in utero would be born legitimate. And it may also have been, try before you buy, rather than finding out, too late after you've mixed the finances and etc., and that there was no real compatibility. It was also at a time when there was no reliable birth control but saying no.
The first lecture I attended about Norwegian family research, conducted by the late Gerhard Naeseth, said sooner or later you will find an illegitimate in your line, don't let it bother you. There usually is no problem in Norway, everybody knows who your father is, no reason to hide.
Occasionally, you will run into an attempt to hide an unfortunate pregnancy. The ones I've seen are usually concocted to hide the paternity of a child of a married man with a woman, not his wife. Usually the "plot" fails because, though love is blind the neighbors aren't and really live close by too close to keep anything hidden for long.
There are, very occasionally, exceptions to this as well. On this site we even had one woman who came to US but really had no patronymic name because her mother was in an institution and had been taken advantage of in her disability and so no father was known. |
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ROBJE
Medium member
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 23/01/2016 : 03:44:05
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More than most people, jk, I am in no position to refer to illegitimacy in Norway in negative terms.
I'm all for it. I cheer and adore illegitimacy.
I am one.
Even in 1951, my mother was hidden in the basement during the daytime, and allowed only a brief walk on the grounds after nightfall.
Legally speaking, two of my own five children are illegitimate.
So please don't go there with scolding, even if I seem to make light of it.
I respect and empathize with and thank every single one of my ancestors, and love many of the wayward. Some things - my own genesis, for example - are simply amusing, is all.
- Robert
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JaneC
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
3020 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2016 : 15:37:47
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quote:
Originally posted by ROBJE
It is....just found it. Arrived 18May 1910. Destination Grand Rapids, Michigan. Love it!
A little recap:
Simon Thoresen Moen may be the man who married Marie Sletten and lived in Chisago county, Minnesota, just across the border from Wisconsin. His death record should tell his full birth date and parents' names. It can be ordered from Minnesota Historical Society. Some Minnesota newspapers are searchable at Chronicling America website (US Library of Congress) as a long shot to find an obit.
Matthias b 1866 is not findable in confirmation records or in the 1875 census and may have died as an infant.
That leaves Julie Andersen Moen born 01 July 1870 in Faaberg (is that correct?). She may have emigrated May 1910 as Julie Andersen, destination Grand Rapids, Michigan. This Julie's DOB is listed as 01.07.1870 (in transcription of the departure record, as posted).
In 1910 I think a passenger manifest would have info on a passenger on two pages and contain more information than what we've got posted. On the to-do list, posting more about that traveling Julie.
Julie might head to Michigan to join some unknown person X. Typically that would be a husband or fiance. One thought is to check departures early 1910 for persons headed to Grand Rapids.Seemingly no one found a marriage for her, Rob. You are not being ignored.
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Edited by - JaneC on 25/01/2016 20:06:15 |
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AntonH
Norway Heritage Veteran
USA
9301 Posts |
Posted - 25/01/2016 : 16:18:48
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Probably Julie Andersen arrival. She lists her last pemanent residence as Christiania, she lsits her nearest relative in the country from whence she comes as brother Mr. Flukstad, Chria, and final destination as Grand Rapids, Mich
Julie Andersen
in the New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Julie Andersen
Arrival Date: 18 May 1910
Birth Date: abt 1870
Birth Location: Norway
Birth Location Other: fuaberg
Age: 40
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: Scandinavian
Port of Departure: Christiania
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Hellig Olav
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Edited by - AntonH on 25/01/2016 16:20:46 |
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Greeting, Countrymen
